Corkscrew LW.

[Urchin]

I've seen it occasionally, probably even done it once or twice.  Still not sure exactly how people do it, I couldn't do it intentionally if I wanted to.  I think you have to have a bad connection to do it right, I'm not sure.   It is a pretty gamey tactic to use, that is for sure.  Anyway, I've nothing worthwhile to contribute to the conversation, carry on.

[Wotan]

you are fediddleing worthless sachs just fly level and let umm shoot ya down.

when 190d9 arent runnin were floppin..............

This is pretty a much a bs thread. Every plane in here gets gamed. 190s roll well buts its only ok if ya dont roll too much cause your fe cant handle?

How the fek do warp roll?

The stall flop warp is 50 times worse then that. F6fs live off of that as well as p47d11s. Spit fires that just pull their stick into there belly should suffer from gs more then a rolin fw but I aint see ya post about it..........

Whine of the month here

[Naudet]

LOL, that cant be treu.

people thinking simple rolls would cause microwarps?

The funniest thing is, i have killed many many FW lately, A or D, and they all used roll to defend, but NOONE of em ever warped while rolling. I could always follow them, guess were they would be and kill them when the just straightened out a bit.

But stick stirring i have seen too lately, P38, P51, Tiffies and Spits just microwarping like mad cows. And those guys did impressive things this way. A tiffie with a 180 degree roll in one forth of a sec. a P38 reversing in the horizontal under a half sec. those were things to squeak about, not the freaking roll rate of the FW.


The best thing is, those stirrers seem never to get a "dont move your controls..." message, but me while zooming up and wackeling my wings a bit (really a bit) to give no stable target, get it. That is BS.

[lapa]

Anyone have a good film showing someone warp rolling? I've seen a few different kinds of microwarps while on someone's 6 and I'm not quite sure what constitutes real "warp rolling" or stick stirring.

One situation is when i see a guy with his nose pointing left and obliquely up, frozen in midair, then half a second later he is some distance to the right with his plane frozen again, pointing in a completely different direction. Is this what is referred as "floppy fish"? At least its damn hard to hit.

Another thing I saw once while following a p51 ( a good pilot with a familiar name i just can't come remember for some reason) was that the pony would reverse his turn insanely fast in a horizontal scissors. I put that one down to him probably using the snap roll at the stall effectively, but how is it generally viewed?

A third type of microwarp I often see on tight turning planes where they sorta "flop" a bit and then continue the original turn. That I always thought was the plane stalling a bit but recovering quickly.

Please, if anyone recognizes those situations, tell me are they considered stick stirring or just legitimate moves that look different through the internet? The only one I personally had problems with was the first example, but can that be also a result of bad connects and slow computers?

Lapa
PS. If anyone has seen me warprolling/stickstirring, tell me when and what was I flying, I have never been sure whether my evasives (well those few that work anyway) are actually good ACM or just blind luck.

[AKSWulfe]

Seems the LostWaffles have a bit of a problem grasping reality right now.

Or atleast taking the time to understand that some of us actually do know what we are talking about. Some of us that have been following HiTech around for years and understand about the supplementary code built into AH and WB that guesstimates the aircraft's next position based on control inputs, speed, heading, etc.

Now here's the deal, information can only go so fast. When you have several people on the screen you are getting multiple lines of data for several different people on your screen. 1 on 1 with no one around, well the floppy fish and limpwristed shuffle aren't as apparent. But I'll be damned if it doesn't exist when there's 30+ people around you furballing or attacking a nearby field.

When you traverse your joystick, rudder and kick your throttle forward and backward as fast as possible without achieving the "you are moving your controls too fast", I guarantee you a box of donuts to other people your aircraft appears to be moving in specific direction but is rotating around the center of the aircraft doing all sorts of funky things.

If you take your joystick, and are in a 190, and rapidly roll from one direction to the other without completing a 360 degree roll, your 190 is only updating 1/4 of the turn each time to the other guy's FE. So instead of a smooth roll you are going from level wings, to side ways, to level, to inverted and back again. Not in a smooth motion, but like you are watching it through a slide show. This is not frame rate related either BulletHead, I don't know where you got that idea from. This is entirely network related since there is not a constant data stream from your end to every one elses there is a huge amount of updates that simply do not exist because the internet and your DSL, cable or other fast connection would not be able to handle it. You would need a T1 to get updates on every player in the game in a constant data stream to negate the need for a netcode algorithm to guesstimate an aircraft's position.

Yes, many planes do it. 109s do it. F4Us do it. No one is denying that. But the fact that 190s are typically the biggest example of it, because they did it in WB and they do it here, then those are the ones that catch people's eyes. I fly 190s, and I've seen it happen. I've even done it because I was stalling and correcting myself very quickly. It ain't exactly a mythical occurance, like finding a leprechaun and a pot of gold. It's very real, and it happens with 190s the most because they have the fastest roll rate.
-SW

[maik]

well some people seem to be always right

[Naudet]

Stain, i too fly the 190 most of the time.

But from my experiences, noone has a prob to follow my rolls. I seem not be warpy/laggy/or what u wanna call it at all.

And also from my experience fighting 190s i really never saw one rolling "unsmooth", even when the did a real quick left-right 180 roll, i could see it.

Flip floping i saw with other planes, not on all, but most of the time on the more popular ones, were the guy flying it seems to know that when movin his stick so and so, on my FE he will just jump from left to right.


And i still wonder why AH uses a 4 times a sec or whatever refresh rate.
I played FA for 15 month, and the game never had any problems related to fast movements. There warps were warps, so a plane did i.e. a jump of 400 yrds or was constantly jumping.
FA uses a kind of constant refresh technic, that really makes the game smooth.
The term flip-flopper i 1st ran into when starting AH, in FA there simply werent such incidents.

[AKSWulfe]

Maik you think we're wrong? Hey, fine. Don't believe me, you know EXACTLY who you CAN get his information from. Go right on ahead and email HiTech himself. Or Pyro. Or, well anyone that knows the AH code at HTC. I think you'll be surprised.

Naudet, not _ALL_ 190s do it. That's the point, some people do it and some don't. It ain't exactly rocket science to figure this one out. We aren't talking about refresh rates either, we're talking about data transfer. It can't keep up with the roll rate.

If you roll to the right, 180 degrees, then reverse to the left without quickly reversing to the right again, then you will not have so much of a pronounced warp between one angle of the wings to the other. If you roll 90 degress left, then go right for 90degrees then go back left as fast as you can, your vector is not updated fast enough and thus you can use this to your advantage.

And to say that you don't see it on 190s but you see it on other planes, well it's quite obvious where you are coming from. I see it on all planes, but 190s *CAN* do it the best. And if a person wants to use it to his advantage, he can and will.
-SW

[FDutchmn]

Maik!!!  Ya still following this thread???? I gave up already!!!

[Am0n]

These types of "warps" are not caused buy netlag.. they are created buy the server "reading ahead" (which it constantly does) of what you are doing so that it decreases the packet size and makes it run "smoother".. It certainly cannot tell the future so it is making educated guesses where you should be at a given time.


Now when the server thinks you should be at point B and your actualy at point A you warp to point A from point B (where you were until the server refreshed).

When the LuftWeiny uses this exploit this is exactly what happens. It cannont keep up with these chaotic movements and reads ahead putting him the wrong posistion, then putting him back where he should be, rinse and repeat. All decent rolling AC are capable of this im sure, but one that rolls the fastest is naturaly the best at it.

[lapa]

Naudet, SW, I think there is some smoothing code in place to show an estimate of the planes movement between the updates which happen at x (no idea how many) times per second. If there was nothing, all maneuvering would be warpy with those sharp transitions from one state to another. The warps we see happen when the smoothing code's guess is wrong at the next update. At that point if the plane's current state does not match the prediction of the smoothing algorithm, the position is simply changed on your FE => a small warp happens.

The above is my guess anyway, what the code really does may be more simple or more complex, no one knows except the guys who wrote it.

Lapa

[Hangtime]

My apologies Sachs fer hoppin on yeah with the hobnailed boots.

Seems like folks immediately polarize themseleves to either the LW side or opportunist side.. whelp;this issue belongs to all of us, equally. Yes, 190's can propagate the warp roll evasive faster and easier than SOME planes, but they by no means have an exclusive on this gamey tactic.

Denial ain't just an Egyptian creek.

It happens, it exists, HTC knows of it, all that I'd like to see is the damn thing fixed.

[AKSWulfe]

Lapa, you got it. That was what I was looking for, there's a smoothing code algorithm that is there to reduce the warping between aircraft updates. It can be gamed, much like other things in this game, if you know how it works and have a plane with very fast control responses.
-SW

[Commander rialbh]

Ppls, Ppls, Ppls. Break it up! No fiting here!.  

I will not hafe my ppls fiting each other meanlike.

NOW, having said those ones, I will also say this too, The ME190 is not a warp plane like you other ones say. NO, it is not. Plainly NO. Now, brake it up, before i Must take action against your ones.

!

[lazs2]

Look... it happens.   When a FW is moving violently he is not where your FE says he is.   I imagine that it is as Amon says and has to do with the smoothing code.

It would appear that in AH, just like in WB it is the roll rate of the FW that is "just over" the limit.   Not saying the rate is right or wrong, just that it is "just" high enough to defeat the code.  Others can do it if there is some problem with framerate or lag but the FW does it inherently..  The FW is capable of defeating the code itself.

The fact that this happens is not lost on anyone.  It is annoying and it is even more annoying when LW guys come on and say it can't or doesn't happen.    It is no fun to waste E or bullets on a warpy FW.   Anyone who claims it is not happening is either a liar or unable to grasp what he sees or... Has a very crappy computer and thinks "everyone does it".

I believe that the warps are just a way to let people in the arenas hate LW planes.   The denial on the BB is a way to let literate people hate LW planes and .....I believe that HTC should make  LW planes smell bad so that  blind people could hate em too.
lazs