Damage Modelling Question

[moose]

Just a question on the whole 'kill stealing' thing

When someone gets a kill 'steal', is that because they actually 'shot off' a piece or because they have a cumlative amount of hits on the a/c (whether they broke something off or not)

Say if I rip a wing off an eme fighter and someone else comes in and with a lucky shot breaks his tail off. I had more hits into him but say the other guy had hispanos... would he get kill?

I guess I'm wondering how the whole damage system works in general. Not whining about kill stealers, just curious on how it adds it all up

[Kratzer]

It depends on who does the most damage, cumulatively, I believe, so someone can shoot a carcass (which in most cases is easier than shooting the piloted plane), and because the target can't evade, they can put a helluva lot more lead into it than you did when you knocked off the wing in a snapshot.

[Tac]

From experience, this "more damage" thing is really screwed up.

You can ping a spitfire (or add your most annoying target here) with a lot of 50 cal and not damage it..say, hitting it from d600 or higher.

Then along comes a 4X20mm 190 and smacks the spit in a wing with 2 or 3 20mm hits, ripping its wing off. And I get the kill, even when the spit was clearly undamaged and still fighting as if nothing had happened. I did more damage to it? Not in a million years.

Just right now, winging in p-38 with apar, he had a spit on his 6, keeping up with him for some time, performing as if he had just taken off. I closed to d600 and let him have 200 rnds of 50 cal, he lit up, popped open. As his wreck hit the dirt below me, Apar got the kill. Why? Hell if I know, he pinged it earlier.. but the spit clearly was not damaged as badly as I damaged it.

Also, if say, you hit a con and rip his wing and send him flaming to the dirt 10k below it... and some love muffin comes along and hits it constantly with 20mm's until it explodes, the love muffin gets the kill.

I would LOVE it if HTC put "filters" for this thing. If the damage you inflict rips off a vital part of the plane (entire wing, tail, stabs, kills engine dead on) then the kill should belong instantly to the person that did it, no matter if that fighter glided 1 sector on his dead engine, or was blown up by an la7 shooting the smoking,wingless plane later on.

[Xjazz]

I have get some kills which clearly belongs to someone else.

It does not feel too good when you first get some "No damage" pigns to the buff and then your sqaud mate goes to make his shooting run and he goes down with that buff too... :-(

It sucks

[SirLoin]

It's my experience that once you shoot off a wing or tail,you will always get the kill regardless how much lead someone else pours on.

[Kweassa]

Not true, Sirloin. There were quite many cases when I would think to myself after an engagement "an assist?? Hell, that wasn't no assist!".. I'm sure everybody experienced these sorts of happenings once in a while.

 An enemy plane is being chased by lots of friendlies at deck, getting pinged everywhere but seems to be flying ok, you casually drop down from above, (kill stealing? not when the bozos down below can't drop a single plane chased round and round for many minutes!), get a nice lead shot.. Wammo! His wing falls off and he plummets to the ground.

 Message: "assist on XXXX"

 It's the thing with the AON(all-or-nuthin') damage modelling. It's AON. A plane pings the target like hell and he flies without damage, since the 'hit points' didn't drop enough to indicate some place on the target is destroyed. Another plane comes along, adds a little bit (but a crucial 'little-bit', the important one too many fleck of hay that broke the donkey's back) and it is bust. The system indicates the one who pinged the guy more, rather than the one who landed the critical hit, as the killer.

 I think the AON damage modelling is linked with the power of the guns. Since there isn't any ping specific, complicated damage modelling as we would see in other games like IL-2, I think AH compensates it by giving the guns the ability to snap and destroy the plane with fewer rounds average than IL-2.

 What I'd like to see is ping-specific damage modelling. In the case where Tac described below, those multiple .50 pings would not be enough to snap a wing, but the overall performance of the target plane, concerning wing-related actions(rolling and stuff),  would degrade considerably. In real life, this is indeed a very important hit, but wouldn't count as a 'shot down' if someone else comes along and ends the misery with a accurate shot that finally blows the target's wings off. And, with ping-specific DM, even though the hit factor announces 'damage' to the specific target area, it wouldn't necessarily mean 'total destruction'. The 1~2 ping hits at 800~1000 yards which blows critical areas off encourages spray and pray lamery more than anything else.

[minus]

hehe in real life the kill award got to the pilot who hae the guncam  fotage of riped wings ,< cant beleve they used odometer on adversare planes to tell who make more damage >

[Vortex]

I think Kweassa is on the right track here SirLoin, at least in my experience anyway. I fly the Yak9T a fair bit and a common occurance with that plane is when you hit something with that 37mm they lose a large chunk of their plane, or explode outright. However what is also common is that if anyone else is shooting at that target and scoring even a few hits even with a .50cal, I'll typically end up with an assist with my single 37mm hit.

So I'm not really sure how the calculation comes together, but from what I've seen ripping large chunks of the plane off doesn't guarantee you the kill.

Vortex