Author Topic: PLS HT look into Breda MG modelling! (Read 4403 times)

LUPO · « **on:** January 19, 2002, 12:15:09 PM »

Now in the CT "Stalingrad" the MC202 could find a practical use.
But the modelling of MG Breda is making useless this plane even in a setup like that.
It's a pity to have such a beautiful and glorious plane and be obliged to leave it into hangers.

So, please please, HT for next release look into the breda MG modeling !!!

Wotan · « **Reply #1 on:** January 19, 2002, 12:36:38 PM »

MC 202 vrs p40

Kinda like this?

Hooligan · « **Reply #2 on:** January 19, 2002, 01:32:08 PM »

The Breda machine guns fire suffer from poor rate of fire and poor muzzle velocity. Furthermore C.202s carry a rather light armament of only 2 7.7mm and 2 12.7mm MGs.

For Comparison:

US .30 9.73g Projectile, 835 m/s velocity, 1200 rounds per minute
US .50 42.9g, 928 m/s, 800 rpm

Breda 7.7mm 11.3g, 730m/s, 800 rpm
Breda 12.7mm 36.7g, 760m/s, 575 rpm

The very poor rate of fire on the Breda 12.7mm especially hurts.

I would expect the full armament of a C.202 to be somewhat less effective that 2 US .50s.

Hooligan

JoeCrip · « **Reply #3 on:** January 19, 2002, 02:32:31 PM »

Cool Video Wotan!, Got any more? I'm hooked

Wotan · « **Reply #4 on:** January 19, 2002, 05:06:51 PM »

Quote

12.7mm Italian Breda-SAFAT Machine guns: they all were armed with the multi-effect "S.I.T." - "Scoppianti"(explosive)+ "Incendiarie"(...incendiary)+"Traccianti" (..tracer)- bullets (a variant of Vickers 12.7mm x 81Sr cartridge).

This round is not modelled in ah............

Hooligan · « **Reply #5 on:** January 19, 2002, 06:02:21 PM »

Nobody had magic ammunition. British .303s used the DeWilde AP/I incendiary rounds. US .50s used M8 AP/I rounds. Except at the very beginning of the war, everybody used Machinegun projectiles with some incendiary or explosive content that were significantly more effective against aircraft than standard Armor Piercing rounds. There is nothing particularly unusual or wonderful about Italian ammunition

Hooligan

funkedup · « **Reply #6 on:** January 19, 2002, 06:44:52 PM »

Remember Dinger's gun lethality tests? Breda had a lot more destructive power than it should have based on kinetic energy. That "something extra" has to be chemical energy. HE Breda rounds are definitely modeled in AH.

brady · « **Reply #7 on:** January 19, 2002, 08:47:50 PM »

AP/I rounds are are a compleatly diferent beast than HE/I rounds, HE/I rounds are more efectave aganst defeating the aircraft as per say defeating the means by which it is able to fly. AP rounds kill engines, men and the such, HE/I rounds set it afire, tear pices off it ect, both are effectave, but for different reasions,The Italians, and the Japanese(and others) had HE/I rounds from the start of the war, The Japanese even adopted an Italian design for one of their own.The Breda 12.7mm is not exactely one of the better MG's of the war, the ammo it fires is howeaver a very effectave type.

SageFIN · « **Reply #8 on:** January 20, 2002, 05:45:51 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Wotan
MC 202 vrs p40

Kinda like this?

Uhm. This is the film that has been going around this BBS since the first time this particular issue came up, right? Well, this is the first time I bothered to download it and take a look.

Sooo... lots of small explosions and puffs as I would expect from small HE rounds -- but -- WTH are those few very big ones on the hurri about 1 - 2 seconds into the film? I can't believe they would be the HE rounds going off.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #9 on:** January 20, 2002, 07:50:26 AM »

In the video we can notice a lot of flying pieces, but no fire (from API). It seems the HE 13mm rounds were really effective.

Vermillion · « **Reply #10 on:** January 20, 2002, 09:29:41 AM »

Brady, I would agree with you once you get up into true "cannon" rounds, say from 20mm and up.

But Hooligan is dead on. The HE component in both the Italian and Japanese MG rounds is very minute. And while it may very slightly increase its effectiveness, its not gonna make up the difference between them and the US .50's.

Wotan · « **Reply #11 on:** January 20, 2002, 09:40:28 AM »

i have parked a 202 behind a spit ix and zeke and those 2 planes eat most of the ammo.

Sure they "dont hit as hard as .50s" I dont think they were as ineffectual as in AH.

I go to the da and test umm.

I didn't say there was some magic bullet just that they are in my ah expierence ineffective. While definately under gunned the 202 from what I've read and seen wasn't as whimpy as in AH.

I have never seen dingers test.

And clearly you see the damage in that video and you can count most of the hits. Nothing rips off the plane so maybe its the damage model in ah.

Either way Lupo is right......... they are useless........

Seeker · « **Reply #12 on:** January 20, 2002, 11:04:52 AM »

"i have parked a 202 behind a spit ix and zeke and those 2 planes eat most of the ammo. "

I have to agree the 202 seems toothless, but how does the 202's MG's compare to other "ordinary" MG's, such as the RAF's 303's? Does the advantage of an explosive round show up there?

Am I right in thinking that if a Hurri pilot uses up his cannon and misses, then in theory at least, the 202 should out gun him?

Karnak · « **Reply #13 on:** January 20, 2002, 11:26:16 AM »

Wotan,

I can't see how that is possible.

I've blown the wing off of a B-17 in one pass using the 202, and that didn't take half of its ammo.

Vector · « **Reply #14 on:** January 20, 2002, 11:34:44 AM »

Nice film. What are those flashes above the fuselage and right wing?