Author Topic: Does anybody here know how to play this game?  (Read 1032 times)

Offline Dago

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« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2002, 10:35:19 AM »
It might help to realize not everyone plays this game for the same reasons.  Not all players give a crap about strat, field captures, etc.  

Alot of players just want to dogfight, thats it. Dont fault them, it's their choice to make. Unless you are personally paying their $15 a month for someone, you really dont have a say in how they play or what their focus should be.  I join missions occasionally, and I still see plenty going up, but I like to dogfight, I like to furball.  
 
Have your focus, do what you want, but please dont complain because not everyone shares your goals.

It is amusing how the CT fans will jump on anyones frustration trying to get them to come to the CT.

dago
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Offline airspro

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« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2002, 10:40:27 AM »
I am on my 3rd wk of not flying .

Last mission me and reaper did together he said "everything seems so hard now" or some such thing , I told him we could always play "checkers" on the  http://www.zone.com  . :D  toejam we couldn't find a place were we could live after giving up some alt . Yes I know lazs :)  But he hates to die .

I then said "I got a new dvd player from my kids and popcorn and a movie sounded good" . Ain't been back flying online since .

My plan is to take a nice break and then  come back . My real hope is that my bro's will be out of that P51B and into one I can see in back of again :(  I truly hate the back view in it .

RTCW is fun also , borrowed it and now have it cracked :p

U take care Hangtime .

spro

PS: Yep I come look at the map online and then just log off many times also . I think it's more me than the game though , like many above have stated .
My current Ace's High handle is spro

Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2002, 10:40:53 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dago
It might help to realize not everyone plays this game for the same reasons.  Not all players give a crap about strat, field captures, etc.  

Alot of players just want to dogfight, thats it. Dont fault them, it's their choice to make. Unless you are personally paying their $15 a month for someone, you really dont have a say in how they play or what their focus should be.  I join missions occasionally, and I still see plenty going up, but I like to dogfight, I like to furball.  
 
Have your focus, do what you want, but please dont complain because not everyone shares your goals.

It is amusing how the CT fans will jump on anyones frustration trying to get them to come to the CT.

dago


Not everyone that enjoys the CT (and the MA for that matter) jumps on anyone or antagonizes anyone.  It seems to me that the folks that *don't* like the CT or any kind of event does some antagonizing themselves. That brush that you're using is a little wide.

Hang, hope  the best for ya bud, I have enjoyed your company as a bishop and fying against your expertise in the past. I hope continues in the future
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline Zigrat

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« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2002, 10:52:33 AM »
hey hang,

i feel the same way you do. thats likely why i quit aces high. the game has changed alot from what it was when i started playing almost 3 years ago and not for the better. there isnt really anything to be done about it, the gameplay style of teh main arena draws this type of crowd : its obviously the target audience and it should eb according to demographics. i dont know how much money there is to be made on those of us who dopnt enjoy flying in a luffberry for 4 hours straight.

Offline Sunchaser

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« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2002, 11:08:26 AM »
Hey Hangtime, check out the 336th if you need a break from AH.

http://www.devil-dawgs.com

I have the same problems with AH as you lately but am sticking around till 1.09 at least and will see how the CT develops.

The main arena is totally fubar and if the CT does not work AH is going to remain what it has become, a too crowded playground.

The playground aspect is NP,  AH and any sim is a playground for us, but the crowd and their method of play wears thin and if alternatives do not exist we move on.

I have had a great run with AH and hope to be here awhile but there is a great online alternative, much smaller numbers but intense action either dogfight or coop and http://hyperfighter.jinak.cz will make finding games easy.

The 336th has become home to some AH refugees and they are recruiting, check it out.

BTW, this is not an attempt to get guys out of AH, I may not be flying it but I support AH fully by maintaining an active account, I only post here to present an alternative to the frustration some are feeling.

Offline Tjay

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« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2002, 11:23:56 AM »
Hang,
Have participated in and enoyed several of your missions. The problem with the mission planner is that the orginator has no control over who joins. So the fact that you find yourself flying with newbies, kids, and those with no concept of tactics or discipline is inevitable. That's why I tend to avoid them these days.
Are there not enough FDBs online most times for you to run ad hoc squad missions? That's what the Firebirds do when there are enough of us about. Of course, that precludes escorted 1000 bomber raids.:rolleyes:
Last night we ran a Blitzkrieg capture of a field, deliberately limiting the numbers so we didn't have too many unknown quantities. Those that did join seemed to do their job well but the mission planner (Skyman) did put in a lot of work on the mission channel to make sure eveyone knew the score. It worked a treat and was very satisfying. So it can be done.

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2002, 11:37:41 AM »
Gents, i really appreciate you guys taking the time to show me how it looks from your vantage points; what the game has become from your perspectives.

I'm less than charmed by the current MA... and am excited about the CT's ongoing development. The Scenario Corps and CM's all deserve a huge thanks for keeping their oars in and steering development of a better game board. I hugely like the folks at HTC, and while I can applaud their marketing success and technical accomplishents I bemoan what it's done for my favorite pastime... well second...err third... ummm, ah.. fourth, favorite pastime. :cool:

Had a great loooong nights sleep, feel a lot better today about the AH world and frankly I was scared toejamless to reopen this thread to see what my whines had wrought. Thanks for cuttin me some slack, I'm not worthy.

The flat spot I've developed on my skull from pounding it against the AH MA wall is still sore, but I expect that will heal also. In the meantime, I'll look for ways and means to apply positive pressure to the problems.. In light of that revelation, perhaps it's time I  applied to the CM Corps.

Thanks again gents.  
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Vortex

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« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2002, 11:39:48 AM »
I'm one of the "new" folks in AH so I'll thow in my two bits here. I think you're seeing two main issues at work here...

First, is that you've got a lot of veteran players from other sims here now. Their ideas of gameplay will invariably differ from the veteran players here. No surprise, sims do differ subtly from one to the other, moreso when things like the overall strategic gameply (or lack thereof) are concerened. You all undoubtedly noticed that when you came to AH from whatever sim you were playing prior.

With that move comes set preferences on how one wants to play. I'll use myself as an example. I haven't played onlines sims for 6 years or so. The last experience with them was AW and WBs, the prior going back to the beginning of the last decade. Now, the prior very much shaped my style of play. Although AW did have certain strategic elements in its early days it was first and formost a furballing sim. That's what I grew up with, that's what I like. Accordingly I'm one of those folks who does stick to the furball areas, couldn't care less about who wins what capture, isn't at all interested in perk points or scores or living or racking up infinite amounts of kills without dying or whatever. Just want to fly and fight...and its my 15 bucks a month and that's exactly what I'll do with it, thank you very much. :) If I get an itch to help with missions, I do. For the most part though I pretty much ignore that part of the game.

That mindset, however, is not at all uncommon in MA. This leads to the second big hurdle here in that for play choices you've got a couple arena's that are near identical in what they do. For the most part CT is the same as MA. Its differences are quite sublte...shorter conns, restricted plane set, and now a different terrain. The udnerlying play, however, is identical. Its base warrior in a nutshell. Now I don't mean that to sound negative as that's not the intent. There's a lot of cool things about CT if you're after potentially more refined tactical/strategic play. Overall though it is simply a continuation of the MA theme though.

That's important because what you're basically left with is the MA as an increasingly furball oriented arena. Simple fact of the matter is that many folks ARE only going to want that for their play time, so that's in fact what they will do. Accordingly CT makes the most sense for those wanting a more structured mission oriented approach...or just  a more team oriented feel.

Personally I'd like to see a purely furball arena be put in to give players something different from the "base warrior" gameplay that is the cornerstone to MA and CT. The Dueling arena has been suggested but that's not working as the plane set enabled is far to limited to be effective. Nevertheless, this would help draw some of the frivolous furballlers like myself out of the MA and into an arena where we don't get in the way of those making missions, and those making missions don't get in our way. Without that option available then obviously the MA is the place one must go for their play. Unfortunately those that are strategically oriented will be continually frustrated by the lack of enthusiasm many of use have to the ebb and flow of of those activities in MA.

As an aside, and very much worth noting, I see as many "vets" as newbies desiring missions in MA. One certainly doesn't have to be an old timer to appreciate that part of the game from what I'm seeing, quite the contrary.  Moreover, you best have patience with these folks too if you want those missions to bear fruit in the days and weeks ahead. They have their learning curves too, just like everyone else reading and posting to this thread. Everyone was a newbie at some point.  :->

Vortex
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Offline Widewing

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« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2002, 11:48:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wilbus
Same Furios, Wotan, log in the MA, see 300 players online on a SMALL MAP, and there is really noting to do then to furrball, I almost only fly fighters, not helping much in field captures unless there is a mission going on, but I hate the lag in there now, the constant warping and HUGE furrballs over one single field where it's got to do more with luck then skill, not to mention that if you happen to find a nice 1 vs 1 fight, there will almost allways be 3 or 4 of the enemies friends who join in after 1 minute.


While I've been posting to the AH boards for some time now, I'm what most would classify as newbie to the actual sim, having just joined the mayhem about a week ago. However, I've been flying offline WWII sims since they first became available. My favorite offline sim has always been European Air War. It's well structured with deep immersion. The AI's predictability and the low resolution graphics are its only significant weaknesses.

So, when I entered the MA for the first time (about a week ago), I was somewhat dismayed by the disorganized mayhem present. Initially, I wanted to get my feet wet, so I avoided the huge furballs and concentrated on picking my fights carefully. Unfortunately, finding a decent one on one was difficult in the extreme. I'd finally isolate a single fighter and go after him, or play dumb by flying along straight and level, inviting a sniper to take the easy kill. Someone usually takes the bait and we'd have good ol' time for about 30 seconds. However, like tossing a gold coin into a Mogidishu street, the urchins race over in a horde to grab the prize. Of course, that changes everything. Most of these guys are fixated on getting kills to the exclusion of all else. No thought on tactics, no thought of protecting a fellow pilot. Naturally, being a "newbie" combined with a rather steep learning curve meant that my first two days in the MA were not very impressive. I had my bellybutton waxed nearly a dozen times without a single kill my for trouble (a few assists don't count in my mind) before I got the hang of things.

I have discovered a method to deal with this dog-pack mentality. Sometimes, if I'm in the correct frame of mind upon logging on, I find a field being swamped by badies, pick a Zero or Spit Mk.V and take whatever fuel is available or 75% max. Spawning in a hanger, I launch directly from there getting airborne as quickly as possible. Should badies fail to get me on the takeoff run, the fun begins. Hell, if I have to deal with being outnumbered up to 10:1, why not do so under circumstances where it's actually fun and I have some measure of parity, if not outright advantage: Down in the weeds, stallfighting. My favorite place to do this is in one of those punchbowl airfields. You know, the type on the coast, surrounded by high hills on three sides. This goes a long way to cancelling some of the advantage normally available to the B&Z planes. Should the badies want to engage (most usually do), they have to fly into the bowl. Once in, they will have to turn or climb to get out. Some of them don't get out. Flying the bog-slow Zero and marginally faster Mk.V under these circumtances presents major problems for the opposition. Engaging either type in a slow turning fight is suicidal, unless they happen be flying the same types (yet, that guarantees them nothing). One fact prevails. You will seldom be shot down by anyone you see. A hard turn or instant vertical maneuver will shake anyone on your 6 flying one of the "uber" fighters. Should they try to follow, they're dead two turns later. Still, even Saburo Sakai could not avoid the huge volume of lead being sprayed your way during this type of fight. Every Tom, Dick and Harry flying red-tagged airplanes will taking wild, off-angle shots at you, and just may find the mark. Then again, one lone cowboy in a Zeke or Spit can completely breakup a coordinated attack on the airfield (if any of you have watched Leviathn defending an airfield in his Mk.V, you'll understand what I mean)  Killing two or three of the attackers can cause the remainder to re-evaluate their plan of attack, and often, there's a mass scramble by the more learned pilots to get the hell out of that punchbowl. At this point, they will usually confine themselves to high-speed passes, which if spotted, are easy to dodge unless they're coordinated attacks, and it seems that no one coordinates anything once the fight starts.

(By the way, I found that it is folly to take on a horde at altitude, or even low over water, in either the Zero or Mk.V. There's simply too many escape options open for your opposition, and you cannot:
1) Hope to catch them with either the Zeke or even the Mk.V.
2) Can't afford to try, because flying straight and level is instant death. In other words, should the guy you're after break and run, and you miss your first shot, turn away and look for someone else. Yeah, I know, that does take a lot of air discipline and most will continue the chase, usually to their peril)

However, the never ending incoming stream of party crashers means that you will eventually run out of gas, ammo (frequently both) and luck. But, what the hell, I find that this is at least a challenge. Since it appears that there is no short term solution to the disorganized MA, with its dogpack like swarms of arcade junkies, why not find a way to have fun despite these faults?

Sometimes, I take a Spitfire Mk.IX, load it with a droptank and go find a distant and quiet enemy airfield and wait for someone to get airborne. I allow him to get a few thousand feet of altitude, then angle in on him. This is the best way I've found to get a one on one that is not immediately broken up by the dogpack. There is one downside. As often as not, no one ever takes off and you find yourself flying lazy eights until you get down to bingo fuel. Naturally, when your fuel state is low, someone appears on the runway. So, you have two choices. You can drop down and kill him on the takeoff roll, or while he's too slow and low to evade. Or, you can be a gentleman, show a little mercy (frequently, planes taking off from fields deep in the rear are piloted by newbies just feeling out the MA) and just go home. Naturally, by diving down to the field, the AI triple A can ruin your entire day.
Generally I go home. I should mention that no one has ever  given me anything close to a break or fair opportunity. That's not in the nature of the MA.

I fully understand the frustration of the MA. However, you can still enjoy the experience if you're willing to deviate from what you normally prefer and experiment a bit.

My best to all,

Widewing
« Last Edit: January 20, 2002, 11:56:43 AM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Widewing

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« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2002, 11:52:52 AM »
Ignore please, I somehow double posted.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2002, 11:55:36 AM by Widewing »
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline 1776

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« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2002, 12:13:14 PM »
Hangtime said:
"perhaps it's time I applied to the CM Corps."


That would be nice if you get on as a CM!!

Ok, am going to say that there is a place for everyone(furballers & Base closers) in AH.  This game isn't intuitive as it once was.  Because some of us have been around since Beta days we have a better understanding of the sim.  The new people from WB and AW have a somewhat understanding of AH, but someone who is new is totally befuddled!  I remember the first time I played AW.  I didn't know which way was up.

I think we old dogs need to cut any new pilot some slack.  They are just trying to get oriented and prolly furball just because they haven't any idea of the strat involved.  Heck, I have been away for a couple of months and am trying to get oriented myself  again.  And it's taking me some time to get used to the FM and strat again!  

Guys, this isn't a simple sim(thank heavens)!!

Prolly in a couple of months the MA character will change as the new ppl grasp this world created by HT and crew!

Hang, I loved the way you defeated your own whine:)  I am glad you are going to put your frustration to good use in the sim:)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2002, 12:15:47 PM »
Log on,

See MA has 400 people,

See Mindenao Map,

Log off.....



Thats the problem with AH now, it has gone mass-market.  It much better for HTC financially but the product has suffered, even though they are improving it daily. The old feel is gone.

Offline Tac

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« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2002, 12:16:31 PM »
I know the feeling hangtime, many times ive put up missions with p38's, had about 15 people join (Lazer once got like 32 people in a 38 mission!)... we got to target, and about 9 of those 38's augered on their attack dives.

Thats disheartening to say the least hehe. :D

Widewing: It wasnt always like this. The reason its like this now is the small maps and the quick resupply/rebuild of ground objects.

Heck, before you had to get a really organized mission to get 4 lancasters and its 3 or 4 escorts halfway across the map... and had to get an organized hi alt defense quick before they plastered the HQ and killed the radar.

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2002, 12:40:29 PM »
Quote
Someone usually takes the bait and we'd have good ol' time for about 30 seconds. However, like tossing a gold coin into a Mogidishu street, the urchins race over in a horde to grab the prize. Of course, that changes everything. Most of these guys are fixated on getting kills to the exclusion of all else. No thought on tactics, no thought of protecting a fellow pilot.


Bingo.. give the guys a cigar. ;)

Nice post Widewing. I enjoyed it immensely.

Quote
Although AW did have certain strategic elements in its early days it was first and formost a furballing sim. That's what I grew up with, that's what I like. Accordingly I'm one of those folks who does stick to the furball areas, couldn't care less about who wins what capture, isn't at all interested in perk points or scores or living or racking up infinite amounts of kills without dying or whatever. Just want to fly and fight...and its my 15 bucks a month and that's exactly what I'll do with it, thank you very much.  If I get an itch to help with missions, I do. For the most part though I pretty much ignore that part of the game.


Rgr that Vortex, good point... that rings sooo true. I don't wanna deny you and Lazs the furball.. never did. There has ALWAYS been a dominate furball percentage in the MA. Missions, and Strat mentality always involved about 25-30% of the game numbers... but now that percentage is down to about 5%... and so now it is not only unlikely to get a 'good' 1v1 or 2 v 2,  it's also significantly less likely a mission can be organized and flown with enuff credible impact to obtain it's objective... gain the target and keep the pilots in it alive via teamwork.

whats developed instead is a kinda polyglot mob, bearing torches and waving clubs as they beseige a field in a massive vultch or low level furball on the edges of a field, with waves of goons appearing or not.. buffs stumbling around or not.. no cohesion AT ALL.. truly.. is this satisfying?? I guess it must be.. we're all doin it.

In the past the furballs and the missions co-existed.. the mission would begat a furball, then the field would fall and it would start up all over again... next field up the line. Now we get 5 hour seiges.. "bring out yer dead... *gong* bring out yer dead...  *gong*"

*sigh*

Seems the MA has become a lot less than it could be... maybe it'll swing back to the old mix, I hope it doews. One things for certain.. these maps are too small or the numbers flying too large... and the server just can't handle these numbers of pilots in close proximity, because even if you do like the 50 plane furballs, you can't possibly be enjoying the warp fest THAT generates.

Again.. thanks for the input guys!

The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Fatty

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« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2002, 01:03:22 PM »
You're too late, Rude's stopped the list.  Nancyboy.