Author Topic: The P-38...a Mustang Pilot's Observations (Read 925 times)

Tac · « **Reply #15 on:** January 21, 2002, 03:27:06 PM »

On a 1-1 co alt the P38 has the advantage over the pony. Better climb, better accel below 200mph, better turn radius.

On 1-1 with 51 higher, the 38 still holds a nominal advantage. If the 38 lets the p51 bounce him 2 or 3 times the p51 will usually either break off and get away or commit to some type of turning fight..where it loses. I kill more p51's that bounce me than when I bounce P-51s or than when im co-alt with them.

On 1-1 with 51 lower, the 38 is more at a disadvantage than at an advantage. It makes the 38 get lower to do a high speed attack on the p51, which can easily turn to evade, dive to 500mph, leave the 38 behind and at d5.0 it can zoom up , get higher than the 38 (which has bled from 500ish on his attack dive to around 300'ish because of its poor E-retention before the pony gets beyond d3.0) and proceed to do the typical dive to 500, spray from d600 on the low nose HO pass (making 38 lose more alt meeting or evading the HO), zoom past the merge at 500mph, get to d5.0), repeat... theres almost no defense against this except to meet and win the HO or disengage to the deck

The 38 MUST try to make the pony commit into turning and NOT dive with the p51, and do a power climb the moment the p-51 dives away.... Thats all the trick theres to beating a pony.

"Lower = choice 2 in easy kill targets"

Not on a 1-1 in my experience. You may have an easy time bouncing 38's that are being swarmed by everything else out there (read:spits).

We all know, in a sector with 50 fighters; 25 spits, 10 la7's, 8 niks, 2 109's, 3 190's, 1 205, 1 yak , 1 goon and 1 P-38... and all the possible red icons, including the red goon, dive to kill the P-38

the_hegemon · « **Reply #16 on:** January 21, 2002, 04:04:48 PM »

Ponies are tasty. I like mine medium rare

Midnight · « **Reply #17 on:** January 21, 2002, 04:05:02 PM »

I don't base my observations on the one encounter with your guys Rude.

Tour 15: Midnight has 2 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-51D against the P-38L.
Tour 16: Midnight has 6 kills and has been killed 1 time in the P-51D against the P-38L.
Tour 17: Midnight has 10 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-51D against the P-38L.
Tour 18: Midnight has 5 kills and has been killed 3 times in the P-51D against the P-38L.
Tour 19: Midnight has 8 kills and has been killed 2 times in the P-51D against the P-38L.
Tour 20: Midnight has 11 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-51D against the P-38L.
Tour 21: Midnight has 4 kills and has been killed 1 time in the P-51D against the P-38L.
Tour 22: Midnight has 11 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-51D against the P-38L.
Tour 23: Midnight has 22 kills and has been killed 2 times in the P-51D against the P-38L.
Tour 24: Midnight has 13 kills and has been killed 1 time in the P-51D against the P-38L.

Quote

Originally posted by Tac
The 38 MUST try to make the pony commit into turning and NOT dive with the p51, and do a power climb the moment the p-51 dives away.... Thats all the trick theres to beating a pony.

"Lower = choice 2 in easy kill targets"

Not on a 1-1 in my experience. You may have an easy time bouncing 38's that are being swarmed by everything else out there (read:spits).

Tac, I have to disagree with your observations. I'll post a film when I get home.

Hangtime · « **Reply #18 on:** January 21, 2002, 05:45:33 PM »

hehehhe.. enjoyed this thread immensely.

I've seen just about every possible combination of peee38 v p51d encounter possible... and I gotta say... results inconclusive.

I tend to get bounced alot.. and i also do a lotta bouncing. I find the p51 tends to bounce 1.7 times and tumble on impact, whereas the pee38 tends to lawndart with no bounce at all.

In those circumstances where I find myself actually turning with one.. I can kill it pretty easy. If on the other hand the guy whips his nose up and acts like a G10 in trouble, I tend to start sweating. thats where i found out that p51's bounce 1.7 times on average..

lazs, not to worry. F4u's bounce about the same as ponys.

Yeager · « **Reply #19 on:** January 21, 2002, 06:15:14 PM »

Im tending to agree with Hangtime about the bouncing bit.

1.7 bounces sounds just about right for 51s whereas 38s simply stick to the terrain as with velcro.

Y

Tac · « **Reply #20 on:** January 21, 2002, 06:57:19 PM »

T24:
Tac has 4 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-38L against the P-51B.
Tac has 9 kills and has been killed 5 times in the P-38L against the P-51D.

T23:
Tac has 26 kills and has been killed 13 times in the P-38L against the P-51D.
Tac has 5 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-38L against the P-51B.

T22:
Tac has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times in the P-38L against the P-51B.
Tac has 20 kills and has been killed 9 times in the P-38L against the P-51D.

T21:
Tac has 12 kills and has been killed 7 times in the P-38L against the P-51D
Tac has 2 kills and has been killed 1 time in the P-38L against the P-51B.

T20:
Tac has 6 kills and has been killed 2 times in the P-38L against the P-51B.
Tac has 22 kills and has been killed 13 times in the P-38L against the P-51D.

T19:
Tac has 44 kills and has been killed 18 times in the P-38L against the P-51D.
Tac has 3 kills and has been killed 1 time in the P-38L against the P-51B.

T18:
Tac has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times in the P-38L against the P-51B.
Tac has 11 kills and has been killed 5 times in the P-38L against the P-51D.

And please, bear in mind that the 38 was a singleping o' deathtrap until this version came along (T23 or 22? $@# memory), and that P-51 is far more survivable than the 38 in the MA gangbanging thanks to its capability to r... err.. "extend".

Pony's only tend to be able to get me when im engaged with some other fighter or tangled with a mess of cons. Only very few pony pilots (rude! $#@$@#

) make me wish I had taken more aspirin on the morning.

Midnight · « **Reply #21 on:** January 21, 2002, 07:26:31 PM »

Film as promised.

It's good to be one of the few

Watch as Midnight single handedly gives Tac and LAZER a silk elevator ride.

No furball, no other engaged cons, just Midnight, Tac and LAZER.

http://www.brauncomustangs.org/ZIPs/2xP38kills.zip

I watched it again from another angle. FulzGold made one pass at Tac as he was stalling in a rope-a-dope.

BigCrate · « **Reply #22 on:** January 21, 2002, 07:30:51 PM »

I think what it all boils down to.. Is who is the 51 driver and how does he fly his aircraft. And who is the 38 driver and how does he fly his aircraft..
To be good in any aircraft in AH or real life for that matter.
You have to live, sleep ,eat that aircraft till it is apart of you.. A good 38 driver will know how to handle his aircaft. But a great 38 will know all its secrets and weaknesses.
And this this holds true to all aircraft.. A good 51 driver will beat a
avreage 38 driver.. But a good 38 driver will beat a good 51 driver. Also a great 51 driver will beat any aircraft and pilot he flys aganist.
Because he knows the sercets and weaknesses of his aircraft. And also the sercets and weaknesses of every other aircraft in the areana. and exploits the weaknesses and surpresses the strenths of the enemy aircraft he is fighting aganist. And win!
As I said earlier it is who is flying the 51 and who is flying the 38

CW

Tac · « **Reply #23 on:** January 21, 2002, 07:37:06 PM »

True CW, very true.

The P-51 is an incredible plane, but it doesnt measure up to the 38 in anything except top speed and e-retention.

I'd venture to say its just a 38 with a jalapeño up its bellybutton

-ammo- · « **Reply #24 on:** January 21, 2002, 08:06:22 PM »

tour 20

tour 21

tour 22

tour 23

tour 24

P38s make me hungry.

Mr Hanky · « **Reply #25 on:** January 21, 2002, 08:10:07 PM »

Both the p-38 and the P-51 suck blue turds.

Tac · « **Reply #26 on:** January 21, 2002, 08:26:23 PM »

Nice movie Midnight. That's from Tour 20 though, singlepingodeath stab and 1 ping death engines a 38 specialty

Lemme see juggies.. T24 - 12 kills of p47d30 , 0 deaths by p47d30 .. T23 .. 11 kills , 6 deaths... t22...6 kills 3 deaths.. t21...5 Kills 2 Dth ...t20..8 kills 7 deaths.

I knew it, they just bombs with a prop up in front

. Methinks the jalapeño on this plane gives juggies a gag reflex *G*

*shakes fist*

and u just wait till we get them dive flaps installed!! *evil grin*

(HT's goon bringing in the dive flap conversions got shot down!)

Hangtime · « **Reply #27 on:** January 21, 2002, 08:31:48 PM »

Tour 24 Hangtime has 11 kills and has been killed 5 times in the P-51D against the P-38L.

Tour 23 Hangtime has 6 kills and has been killed 2 times in the P-51D against the P-38L.

Tour 22 Hangtime has 14 kills and has been killed 4 times in the P-51D against the P-38L.

Tour 21 Hangtime has 2 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-51D against the P-38L.

Tour 20 Hangtime has 3 kills and has been killed 0 times in the P-51D against the P-38L.

*yawn*

So what? All this proves is that I kill low ones, run from high ones screamin like a lil girl, and don't trip over my dress as often as I used to.

Since us allies have nothin better to do now that the LW has capitulated I suggest that the only TRUE test of these mighty dorks.. err... ahhh... swords would be to have a rumble.

sax · « **Reply #28 on:** January 21, 2002, 08:50:39 PM »

Put a newbee in a spit an let em kill everyone:)

Sax

-ammo- · « **Reply #29 on:** January 21, 2002, 08:57:06 PM »

touche~

Tour 24

what does this prove? Absolutely nothin;)