Author Topic: Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:  (Read 3406 times)

Offline eskimo2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7207
      • hallbuzz.com
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« on: January 21, 2002, 10:55:23 PM »
The Problem:
The MA is becoming boring/frustrating.  (See Hangtime's Thread)
More often than not, giant furballs and  gang-bangs are all that can be found in the MA.
Missing are organization, strat, surprise and options.

Strat;
With the last major release (1.08) of Aces High, strat was drastically changed.
Strat targets now rebuild automatically (Via trains) and can be rebuilt by players (Cargo Sorties).
Instead of increasing player organization and cooperation by requiring greater teamwork to achieve strategic goals, strategic missions have been altogether abandoned.  Most players are not willing to participate in a difficult raid, that even if successful will be rebuilt before they get home, giving them no chance to reap the rewards of their hard work by implementing follow-up raids.
Before 1.08, I personally would knock down the HQ several times a week.  Now, I can't even remember the last time anyone's HQ went down.  As a result, radar-down sneak captures are gone.

Small Fronts, Large Player-Base, Limited Options;
With increasing numbers of players in the MA, all-too-often many players find themselves looking for something to do other than participate in the big furball or gang-bang.  A persistent base of players who are ready to up as soon as they realize that something different is going on means that raids are intercepted more often.  When a countries front line is down to 4 or less front line bases, and there are 300+ players in the arena, finding or starting a "fresh fight" can be impossible.

Radar, Too Much Information!
Get together 20 countrymen with a base capture objective, climb to 15K, fly 50+ miles to your target, and meet 20 co-alt+ enemy...  
Why plan?  Why organize?  Well-planned missions fail too often because the enemy has too much warning.  

Nothing kills the incentive to organize like an enemy informed of your actions!

Personally, I avoid planned missions often because I know that they are doomed.
If they were successful more often, I would participate more often.
To be successful, the enemy shouldn't know what is going on the instant 25 P-47s spawn on their own runway.  When I see a big red bar appear opposite an empty friendly base, I have a pretty good idea what is going to happen in 15 to 20 minutes.  I am probably going to get myself killed on my current sortie well before they get to their target.  This means that I will have plenty of time to spawn, climb to alt and intercept them, or at least sneak out and hunt down their goon.

Giving Away the Locations of CVs.
It's hard to imagine that the Japanese raid on Pearl Harbor would have gone so well had a trigger happy IJN pilot launched an hour early and attacked Pearl Harbor by himself.  The same principle works in the MA.

If player feel that organized missions are too likely to be intercepted or well-defended against, or sneak captures are too unlikely to be successful, and strat targets are a waste of time, what are they to do?  Join in the furball... or join in the gang-bang.

Solutions:

Strat;
Instead of trains and trucks fixing strat targets and bases, their absence should degrade the strat target or base.
If a strat target does not receive a train for X amount of time, it goes down in production.  Perhaps no trains arriving at a city for 45 minutes; city goes down 20%.   For each additional 15 minutes without trains, city goes down another 20%.  Players can bring in supply C-47s to make up for missing trains by keeping city from going down further, but, C-47s WOULD NOT REBUILD STRAT TARGETS!).
If an airbase does not receive a convoy for X amount of time, it's fuel, ammo, troops and radar drop or become disabled (partially, for each missing convoy).
Why is this better?
Instead of being MANDATORY targets for successful strat raids, train killing would become an ALTERNATIVE method for denying the enemy the benefit of operational strategic sites.

Radar:
Changing a few aspects about the current radar status, could have a great impact on how the game is played.
#1. Abolish Enemy-Bar-Dar below 500 feet.  Encourage sneak raids.  Sneak raids would mean that players would have interesting options 99% of the time.  4 guys, with discipline, could capture an enemy base 100+ miles in enemy territory.  
#2.  Abolish Enemy-Bar-Dar in enemy territory.  No dots or bars 25 miles beyond friendly bases.  As stated above, organized missions could at least get to within 25 miles of an enemy base before the enemy is warned Via radar.  Enemy would still get a 5+ minute warning, enough time to oppose, but not always en-mass.

HTC, if you want to see more organization in the MA, give organized players a chance to be successful more often.

Hold Flight on Aircraft Carriers.
Sneaking an aircraft carrier into attack position, behind the front line, is nearly pointless because someone always launches from it while it is en route and gives away its position.  If the commander of the CV could "Hold Flight", organized CV missions would take place often.  Players would have confidence in the mission and sign up because they would know that the enemy would not have warning before the mission starts.  Everyone who recognizes the value of the CV's location would become unified in their efforts.

Effect on Bomber Use:
Replacing the value of strat targets would increase the use of bombers in Aces High.
Reducing the effectiveness of radar would also mean that slow-climbing bombers would stand a better chance of making it to target at lower altitudes, thereby increasing the use of bombers in the MA.  I don't know why, but I have always felt that HTC has been looking for ways to make bombers more relevant and used in Aces High.

In general, incentive needs to be given for the organization of players in any sized group.  When players find success by working together in small groups, they will develop greater knowledge, skills, and incentive to work in larger groups.

The above ideas would make Aces High more interesting, less predictable, create greater options, and promote teamwork among players.

eskimo

Offline eskimo2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7207
      • hallbuzz.com
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2002, 11:03:32 PM »
Hangtime,

Thanks for writing your thread.
I have been meaning to express these ideas for over a week now, but just haven't gotten around to it.  Your thread, along with its responses, gave me the incentive to sit down and write it all out.

eskimo

Offline Seeker

  • Parolee
  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2653
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2002, 11:30:12 PM »
whiner

Offline J_A_B

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3012
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2002, 11:47:37 PM »
As a counterbalance to this post, I will say that I like the MA the way it is--and far from getting worse, I feel gameplay has been massively improving lately.  The amount of milkrunning is decreasing a lot and the fighting is more intense and drawn out.  

I am happier with AH now than I ever have been before--indeed, I'm actually starting to LIKE it.  The price is right, and now the gameplay is approaching the right level.


Sounds like you are just getting bored with the MA.   While I understand that after awhile some players may become bored with the "anything goes" style of the main arena, there's no need to suggest changes to the MA that would adversely affect the game for those of us who are still happy with it.

Perhaps, rather than altering the MA, it's time for AH to offer more in the form of a second "main arena" with a different setup.   Variety is a good thing.

J_A_B

Offline Karnak

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 23047
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2002, 11:48:48 PM »
Nice post Eskimo.

I particularly liked this part:

Quote
Strat;
Instead of trains and trucks fixing strat targets and bases, their absence should degrade the strat target or base.
If a strat target does not receive a train for X amount of time, it goes down in production. Perhaps no trains arriving at a city for 45 minutes; city goes down 20%. For each additional 15 minutes without trains, city goes down another 20%. Players can bring in supply C-47s to make up for missing trains by keeping city from going down further, but, C-47s WOULD NOT REBUILD STRAT TARGETS!).
If an airbase does not receive a convoy for X amount of time, it's fuel, ammo, troops and radar drop or become disabled (partially, for each missing convoy).
Why is this better?
Instead of being MANDATORY targets for successful strat raids, train killing would become an ALTERNATIVE method for denying the enemy the benefit of operational strategic sites.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline MANDOBLE

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1849
      • http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2002, 03:54:40 AM »
Good ideas there. Here is another one:

Actually, armoured assaults have a weak point: spawn point. With only one known spawn point, once the enemy has located it, it is impossible to send more GVs at the enemy base. You will find tanks waiting and aiming just at the point where you are supposed to spawn and jabos orbiting over that place. In some cases, a single coastal battery will defeat any GV spawn attempt over'n over. Add the fact that GVs are clearly seen from long distances as clear dark dots no matter they are behind trees, etc.
 
Another GV related problem is the effectivity of the Flak. It is better against structures and vehicles than a PzIV.

The last issue is the precission and lethality of the acks against panzers. At maximum ack range it will hit you over'n over with no error/dispersion and main gun gone, tracks gone, all gone. And smoke grenades dont have any effect on the ack-laser accuracy.

IMO, only antitank guns (not present), other tanks, rockets or bombs should be able to kill a PzIV.

Offline Pepe

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1020
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2002, 04:03:26 AM »
Good ideas, Eskimo  :)

With regards to GV's, besides MANDOBLE's post, I think it's URGENT to solve ack positions firing through structures and hills. And make Panzer's HE shells more powerful against structures....

Cheers,

Pepe

Offline mrsid2

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1081
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2002, 04:34:01 AM »
Strat is fine and fun if the sides are balanced.

But as things are currently in main, those 'strat' missions are being launched solely to crush the last resistance of the already gangbanged small country (bish, nit or rook.)

Organization starts to SUCK when the country with HUGE ADVANTAGE launches 'strategic strikes' which contain more players in ONE STRIKE than the whole defending country has players.

That, my friends, is pure dweebery, not organization. It's the purest form of gangbanging.

Offline MANDOBLE

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1849
      • http://www.terra.es/personal2/matias.s
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2002, 04:58:00 AM »
mrsid2, the problem is that these massive attacks dont lead to a fast reset but to a long agony. Once the gangbanging countries found that the other one is closer to the victory, they start to use the most cruel tactic, they use the exceeding forces just to stop any advance of the gangbanged country, but dont push for the reset, instead that they try to take one or two bases of the other gangbanging country and so on. This way, the victim country with small numbers and two or three bases is "kidnapped" in this nonsense situation for several days. Each time the gangbanged country try to recover territory against any other country, it found a wall of fighters just waiting for them, the attackers are usually erased from the sky and the deffenders simply keep there waiting for another suicidal weave. Hell, lately I've seen bish and knights capping rook fields with the only intention of vulch, they keep vulching forever and dont move a single finger to take the base unless they have more bases than the other gangbanging team.

Offline mrsid2

  • Parolee
  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1081
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2002, 05:13:38 AM »
I know mandoble, and the things only get worse when the mapmonkeys do all kinds of tricks to win the war and get the precious perks.

One thing like that happened when I was about to see my first rook reset ever, the bish surrendered knits a field just as we were taking the last and ending the war. That way bish could hit our backs taking more fields while we were trying to end the war.
In the end instead of reset, the fight became a bitter vulchfest during which many logged, me included. In the end the dweebs got what they wanted, they gained enough rook fields while rooks were trying to capture the field the bish gave knits. That was great strat, good tactic, but a very boring for gameplay for both nits and rook. Nits were subjected to a continued attack on 2 fields and rooks were ripped off a victory. I was especially disappointed since I've yet to see a single rook reset ever.

I hear many rooks, although the spirit is generally high considering the situation, are spending less and less time online and many even thinking about quitting the game.

There's only so much a person can take and being gangbanged every night eats away the enjoyment.

For you sending the complaints that rooks have numbers, you don't: I dont give a sh't. This is the situation at my timezone, I sleep during that time. The arena should be more or less balanced around the clock because otherwise european / american players of a certain side will always be gangbanged, just the countries switch with the timezones.

Offline eskimo2

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7207
      • hallbuzz.com
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2002, 08:41:44 AM »
Mandoble, Pepe;
You are right about the GV issues.
Ack should not be so effective against GVs at max range, very rarely do I survive in a GV once the ack opens up.  
Each Panzer round seams to be about as effective as each ostwind round.  Six 75 mm hits to kill an enemy GV is typical for me.  Panzers are useless against ground targets.   The ostwind is so much more effective.

In regards to countries being cornered, down to just a few bases, how effective is it for them to launch counter-offensive base-capture missions?  It's not.  
Even when a few planes manage to get away from one of the vulched bases, as soon as they enter a near grid, at any altitude, the enemy is alerted.  As soon as they enter a grid that holds an enemy base, the base is defended.  
No low-dar would give players of gang-banged countries a fighting chance to make it to enemy bases and attemt a capture.

eskimo

Offline Ripsnort

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 27251
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2002, 08:47:45 AM »
100% agree with your thread Eskimo!

Offline BD

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 94
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2002, 09:01:07 AM »
I think Eskimo brings up some very good points, especially about the current strat model.

Offline JoeCrip

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 438
      • http://www.jg51.8m.net
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2002, 09:10:56 AM »
Made some good points about the missions. Good post, i agree with all you have said.

Offline Zigrat

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 792
Problems and Solutions for the Main Arena:
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2002, 11:34:56 AM »
eskimo this is the best post i have seen in months.

i agree 200% with everything you have said. i have quit aces high but if hitech made these changes i would sign back up within 24 hours. i quit for each and every one of the reasons you cited in the problems.

in short you are spot on, and these changes NEED to be made if aces high is to become interesting again.