Author Topic: Talibans in Cuba, Euro pressure... (Read 3336 times)

brainless · « **Reply #30 on:** January 22, 2002, 10:34:44 AM »

Hi Grunherz,

i wonder where you are from, i mean your past in europe?!

The more often i read that stuff you publish here, the more i think you don`t know what you are talkin about.
I don`t know any photos or videos from POW camps, but i know that we for sure are not sitting in our offices, spineless as we are, and wait for the Americans to do the job!!
There were several offers by europe politicians to bring european forces in for support, but the US government decided they didn`t need them. That`s ok, but not our fault. So don`t tell us that we are spineless or whatever.
According to the Geneve Conventions one is a soldier the moment he wears a uniform, is enlisted and bears some kind of badge to identify his loyalty. As we all know, the Taliban have nothing like that, so they are no soldiers. That far its simple.
On the other hand there still are some rights u never can take from a human beeing.
Don`t get me wrong here, i do not support some liberal guy who talks about treating them as abgels or whatever, but anyone has to respect the rights they got according to several constitutions of democratic states. At least the governments of these states.

I´m no friend of treating criminals the soft way, I`m no friend of looking to ones past and saying: ok, he had had a bad childhood, that`s why he raped that girl...aso, but whatever one did, he has his human rights nobody can take from him.
Put them into chains, bring them to court and give them their punishment,(if you ask me a hard one please) that`s ok. But as long as that has not be done, respect their rights.

So please stop talking about Europeans as being soft, spineless or things, there might be some that take it personal and don`t deserve it.

Vector · « **Reply #31 on:** January 22, 2002, 10:45:20 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by gatt
Thats the problem Vector. Since he shot against US Army, helped the terrorists ... actually he is a terrorist ... and so on, he should be treated like other X-ray prisoners. If you dont do it, the UK government will claim his citizens back ASAP and the press will say the USA are using double standards.

That's true, but if he's citizen of USA, then he could be prosecuted for traitorness (sp?) otherwise than others. Being a traitor in USA may lead to death penalty. IMO keeping him apart from others US signals to allies that this is handled as a internal case.

Vector · « **Reply #32 on:** January 22, 2002, 11:01:10 AM »

Btw, watched just news where new Ambassador of USA in Finland disagrees with finnish Foreign Minister Tuomioja's statements of violating "prisoners" rights, woohoo, wtg!
Tuomioja is full of toejam and known his anti-usa and anti-israel statements. He was the one that compared israeli actions against palestinians to those of nazi's did to jewish

What a jerk...

Udie at Work · « **Reply #33 on:** January 22, 2002, 11:15:33 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vector

That's true, but if he's citizen of USA, then he could be prosecuted for traitorness (sp?) otherwise than others. Being a traitor in USA may lead to death penalty. IMO keeping him apart from others US signals to allies that this is handled as a internal case.

They've already said he will face trial here in the states as a citizen. Our constitution set in stone the requirements for a conviction on treason, it's a tough conviction. It requires 2 witnesses to each act or a confession in open court. If the Brits want their citizens back personaly I think we should give them back. They've stood by us in this war and have been like our right hand. Johny walker lind is a lucky son of a squeak, he'll probobly get off with 10-15 yrs in a federal prison, which I guess could be the same thing as a death sentence. Just imagine when the Aryan Nation find him alone in the showers or something. I wonder if he's realised his mistake yet?

Boroda · « **Reply #34 on:** January 22, 2002, 11:23:31 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
You Euros are a pretty pathetic spineless lot these days, if it wasnt for America guarding us in second half of the century wed all be speaking russian eating borsch praising Marx and Stalin and loving it. Any you know it.

Could be better to live under civilized Germans and their servants? Understand who I mean?

GH, your hatred to Russians and other Orthodox nations is patologic.

Now go tell me how you Americans saved USSR in WWII.

Russia "discovered" moslim terrorism 10 years ago. And while we fight, some dumb bellybutton from DC dares to say about "human rights" for terrorists who are caught with weapons in hands, at the same time keeping prisoners (BTW - foreign citizens who obviously didn't commit any crimes against USA) in animal conditions without any chance for justice.

Remember: borsch is a Ukrainian soup. And it is much better then you favourite sandviches with artificial meat. At least you eat it with a spoon, not with your hands, like an animal.

Fatty · « **Reply #35 on:** January 22, 2002, 11:25:03 AM »

Man, I'd love a couple weeks open air tropical vacation in cuba, room and board included. Anyone know how to get there without having to kill anyone?

Udie at Work · « **Reply #36 on:** January 22, 2002, 11:49:01 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Fatty
Man, I'd love a couple weeks open air tropical vacation in cuba, room and board included. Anyone know how to get there without having to kill anyone?

For 90 bucks you can take a boat from Montigo Bay Jamaca. My roommate and I almost did it 8 yrs ago, but that whole going to jail if you go to Cuba thing got in our way, that and that sticky ganja that Dr. Feelgood gave us when we bought the pipe

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #37 on:** January 22, 2002, 11:55:40 AM »

Well the USA did not save the Russians in WW2, thats true. Churchill and the british did. The Russians would have lost if Britain was out of the war by 1940-1941. The British took up so many German resources all over Europe, North africa, and the Mediterranbian circa 1941- not to meantion the direct delays of several to Barbarossa caused by British intervention and support in Greece. Dont belive me Boroda? Did you know the LW had nearly twice used almost twice as many Bf109s in the attack on france as they used in Barbarossa. Whole Panzer Armies were engaded in North africa and the Balkans. Your beloved orthodox well actually godless communist peasants would have lost, it was a damn tight run thing anyway. And Imagine what if there was no US and british bombing of german industry.

Go ahead boroda belive that you all saved the world, they sure did in the 50s 60s and seventies- yep you communist scum thought you were entiled to the place regardless of what the people thought.

Go away drown your pathetic misery in some alcohol and find some some filthy Moscow potato to defile- just get away from here you dirty drunken bum.

I hope ypu like reading this post half as much as I like writing it!

A big ~~to you boroda!~~

Boroda · « **Reply #38 on:** January 22, 2002, 12:31:00 PM »

GH, yep, you "saved" Vietnamese people by bombing them to stone age... You saved Afghani people by setting up a fundamentalist moslim regime there after Soviet forces left. You saved entire population of Dresden from Soviet "occupation". Your "saviour" nation adopted the complete set of nazi propaganda (absolutely, no kidding!) to justify mass murders by "fighting evil commies", who wanted only one thing: a few decades of peace.

I will be sober tomorrow, but you will remain an arrogant nazi.

Your knowledge of history shows that you spent too much time sniffing glue instead of going to school.

Go have a hamburger with a dissolved shoe polish you call "soda" to calm down. Feel free to insert a scanned picture of your american passport instead of a "nice 109 picture". Everybody here understands that you are so 200% American that you even watch baseball on TV.

BTW, I am absolutely sober now, drinking mineral water.

Keep following the Party line, my young friend. People and Party are united! Plans of the Party are the plans of the People!

Fatty · « **Reply #39 on:** January 22, 2002, 12:31:08 PM »

Yeah, actually I've been tempted to go a few times on my british passport from a second country. They're actually quite happy to take US dollars and isn't that much of a problem as long as you're not going direct from US.

Udie at Work · « **Reply #40 on:** January 22, 2002, 12:39:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
GH, yep, you "saved" Vietnamese people by bombing them to stone age... You saved Afghani people by setting up a fundamentalist moslim regime there after Soviet forces left. You saved entire population of Dresden from Soviet "occupation". Your "saviour" nation adopted the complete set of nazi propaganda (absolutely, no kidding!) to justify mass murders by "fighting evil commies", who wanted only one thing: a few decades of peace.

I will be sober tomorrow, but you will remain an arrogant nazi.

Your knowledge of history shows that you spent too much time sniffing glue instead of going to school.

Go have a hamburger with a dissolved shoe polish you call "soda" to calm down. Feel free to insert a scanned picture of your american passport instead of a "nice 109 picture". Everybody here understands that you are so 200% American that you even watch baseball on TV.

BTW, I am absolutely sober now, drinking mineral water.

Keep following the Party line, my young friend. People and Party are united! Plans of the Party are the plans of the People!

Oh man LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Boroda,

hehe I'm laughing too hard. S! Comrad. LOL LOL LOL I'm thinking of a Russian propoganda film I saw from durring the Afgan war 20 yrs ago. In the video it showed the Russian troops "building houses and schools for our Afgan friends" I think it's just about the funniest thing ever to hear you talk about propaganda. PRAVDA LOL!!!

BTW, on a serious note, I'm very sorry to hear that the government has shut down most or all the privately owned media outlets. That worries me, we can already see what the USSR's propaganda has done to you and it's been 10 years since then. I never really thought people actually bought into the crap, but you've made me realize how powerful it really is. I worry for your country dude.

Dowding · « **Reply #41 on:** January 22, 2002, 12:48:31 PM »

Before people get too self-righteous (and start actually quoting from 'Blackhawk Down'...sheesh), British government inspectors have reported the conditions as being perfectly humane.

In fact, is was a right-wing conservative newspaper, 'The Daily Mail', which got all weepy about those orange-suited guy's plight. But then it's usually full of self-righteous toejame anyway, so nothing really changes.

Frankly, I agree with the RAF Tornado navigator shot down in Iraq and tortured; he reckons we should be whiter than white in these things - we should cling to the moral high ground with all our might. Treat them humanely and be fair-handed.

Besides, are these prisoners Al-Quaida or Taliban? The latter are no more than illiterate peasants.

Boroda · « **Reply #42 on:** January 22, 2002, 01:30:54 PM »

Udie, the first paragraph you quoted isn't Soviet propaganda. It's sad truth. BTW, Soviet media never talked about Dresden. I heard about it from my Granny's friend who worked there as ostarbeiter.

Sorry for being so pathetic, but you know, I love Grunherz, he reminds me of my young days. He's absolutely like a young righteous Comsomol activist. Brain-dead.

People really didn't "buy into that crap". The video you saw wasn't believed at all. Everyone saw wounded boys coming back from "behind the river"... I bet I saw much more such film then you did, and I already told you that what we see in the media now is very much like what we saw in 1980-87.

About nazi propaganda adopted by Western world: Udie, it stunned me, but recently I read some books (Western translated books) about nazi regime - and I recognized almost every stereotype that people here use about Russia, as a nazi slogan from 40-s. I have to admit that they were very effective.

You will probably never understand us. Never, if you will try to make conclusions sitting at your sofa watching CNN and reading local newspapers or "popular history"... I had to rethink many things in past 10-12 years. Funny, but 12 years ago I really believed that your way is the best. Hehe, and when I was 10 - I believed in Soviet Socialism

Now I am maybe too pessimistic, but I see that both systems have their disadvantages, and are based on heavy brainwashing

Sorry, three systems: what we have here in Russia now is so weird and complicated even for me to understand. That hype about "free press" is a part of this bedlam: people use your slogans to protect Soviet type of relations. IMNSHO - it's just Putin and his team washing away the remnants of Yeltsin's heritage. Journalists who are called "free" and "democratic" are in fact completely bought by financial groups and olygarchs... I see propaganda cheap tricks both on "free" TV6 channel and "state" TV, and I hate them all. F@#k off from me. Leave me alone. Let me work and don't toejam into my brain.

Back to the topic: I undertand how you feel about that poor moslims, but I find a certain grade of hypocricy when US still has sanctions against Russia for not letting the Jews emigrate (it's called a "human rights violation"), kicks Russia for anti-terrorist operation in Chechnya, and keeps people in dog's cages as if they are animals. Sorry, maybe it's a deep cultural difference, but I find it horrible that some people are kept in dog's cages. It's no glory. No honor to do so. This idea is maybe as alien for me as drinking vodka straight, with raw onions, salo (salted pork fat) and black bread is alien for you.

midnight Target · « **Reply #43 on:** January 22, 2002, 01:33:29 PM »

Boroda,

The USA is not perfect, and I am more than certain that some of our leadership would have jumped at the chance to pull the wool over our eyes to the extent that the Soviet Union lied to you and your countrymen and women. but-----
There is one glaring difference between our 2 societies. Freedom of the press. They (Our Liars) could never get away with it for long. Nothing you write in your diatribes against us is new to anyone here who cares to read. On the other hand, many Russian citizens had no idea the extent of the propaganda machine used against them over the past 70 years.

Boroda · « **Reply #44 on:** January 22, 2002, 01:56:11 PM »

Sorry, I can look cynic, but there is no such thing as a completely free press.

Any journalist and periodical press or media serves certain political and/or financial groups. If someone doesn't - they are useless and usually completely nuts or constantly fighting some imaginary windmills.

Anyway, calling Boris Berezovskiy's "pocket" TV channel "free media" is a silly joke.

To understand how "Russian citizens had no idea the extent of the propaganda machine used against them" - you simply have to live here. Everyone understood it, but it was the rule of the game, of social survival to follow it. It's all too complicated... "And when we'll reach Communism everything be f@#king fine, it will come soon, you only have to wait, everything will be for free, everything will be so nice, probably noone will ever have to die at all!!!" - to quote Yegor Letov's "According to the Plan".... Funny, this song is still actual... "The key to the border is broken in two, and our Grandfather Lenin completely dried out, he decayed into mould and honey, and perestroyka still goes and goes on, and everything goes according to the plan"....