Talibans in Cuba, Euro pressure...

[Udie at Work]

Originally posted by Boroda
Udie, the first paragraph you quoted isn't Soviet propaganda. It's sad truth. BTW, Soviet media never talked about Dresden. I heard about it from my Granny's friend who worked there as ostarbeiter.

Sorry for being so pathetic, but you know, I love Grunherz, he reminds me of my young days. He's absolutely like a young righteous Comsomol activist. Brain-dead.

People really didn't "buy into that crap". The video you saw wasn't believed at all. Everyone saw wounded boys coming back from "behind the river"... I bet I saw much more such film then you did, and I already told you that what we see in the media now is very much like what we saw in 1980-87.



 I'm sure you saw way much more than me,  that video was just about the only propaganda I've seen (from USSR)  I'm glad to know that you could see through it.  It seemed very unbelievable to me, but then I saw the news reports from over here at that time.  


About nazi propaganda adopted by Western world: Udie, it stunned me, but recently I read some books (Western translated books) about nazi regime - and I recognized almost every stereotype that people here use about Russia, as a nazi slogan from 40-s. I have to admit that they were very effective.

 I think I missed the point of this paragraph.


You will probably never understand us. Never, if you will try to make conclusions sitting at your sofa watching CNN and reading local newspapers or "popular history"... I had to rethink many things in past 10-12 years. Funny, but 12 years ago I really believed that your way is the best. Hehe, and when I was 10 - I believed in Soviet Socialism Now I am maybe too pessimistic, but I see that both systems have their disadvantages, and are based on heavy brainwashing Sorry, three systems: what we have here in Russia now is so weird and complicated even for me to understand. That hype about "free press" is a part of this bedlam: people use your slogans to protect Soviet type of relations. IMNSHO - it's just Putin and his team washing away the remnants of Yeltsin's heritage. Journalists who are called "free" and "democratic" are in fact completely bought by financial groups and olygarchs... I see propaganda cheap tricks both on "free" TV6 channel and "state" TV, and I hate them all. F@#k off from me. Leave me alone. Let me work and don't toejam into my brain.


 I have to say that this is the most encouraging paragraph I've ever read from you.



Back to the topic: I undertand how you feel about that poor moslims, but I find a certain grade of hypocricy when US still has sanctions against Russia for not letting the Jews emigrate (it's called a "human rights violation"), kicks Russia for anti-terrorist operation in Chechnya, and keeps people in dog's cages as if they are animals. Sorry, maybe it's a deep cultural difference, but I find it horrible that some people are kept in dog's cages. It's no glory. No honor to do so. This idea is maybe as alien for me as drinking vodka straight, with raw onions, salo (salted pork fat) and black bread is alien for you.


 Well, the sanctions can be revisited and most Americans haven't got a choice on anything that has to do with foriegn policy.  On Chechnya, all we saw on our propaganda er... news was Russian troops shelling neighborhoods and population centers, kind of looked like the same ole USSR to us over here, at least to me.  Now after 9-11 I at least am more open to listening to you're views about the Chenyan "terrorist", but you've got to understand that over here for 10 years they've been billed as freedom fighters.  And about the POW's in Cuba, they are not in dog cages.  Dog cages are about 3 to 4 feet shorter in height than the cages these guys are in.  These guys are getting taken care of far better than they deserve.

[Krusher]

I really want to know what is wrong with the treatment they are getting now? How would the Europeans treat theses poor souls differently?

Give them 4 meals a day not 3?
Give them 2 korans not 1?
Let them pray 6 times a day not 5?
Put them in airconditioned comfort zones not cells?
Allow them to write their families every day not weekly?
Excersise them 2 times a day not 1?
Change the color of their jumpsuits from orange to mauve?Increase the size of the cell from 8x8 to 10x10?
(btw my cube at work isnt 8x8 somebody call the UN please)

[funkedup]

Straffo good one

PS Nuke Russia!

[Daff]

"And Imagine what if there was no US and british bombing of german industry."

By the time the bombing had any effect, Germany had already lost on the Eastern Front.


Daff

[Peer]

Originally posted by Krusher
I really want to know what is wrong with the treatment they are getting now? How would the Europeans treat theses poor souls differently?

They would have guaranteed the basic human rights and not treated as shown on this photo which was in press.

By mistreating these prisoners the USA is loosing the moralic bonus here in Europe.

But to be realistic - there are many people here in Germany who consider the "war against terrorism" a ridiculous phrase.

You cant fight against (taliban or iraqui) terrorism and support (israeli) terrorism at the same time.

[Udie at Work]

Originally posted by Peer


They would have guaranteed the basic human rights and not treated as shown on this photo which was in press.

By mistreating these prisoners the USA is loosing the moralic bonus here in Europe.

But to be realistic - there are many people here in Germany who consider the "war against terrorism" a ridiculous phrase.

You cant fight against (taliban or iraqui) terrorism and support (israeli) terrorism at the same time.

 They are getting better treatment by us than they would get from any other country in history, PERIOD.  

 Moralic bonus?  How about our morality over the last 60 years you ungreatful twit?  Remember the Berlin airlifts?  You saw first hand how we deal with our defeated enemies.  You doubt us now?    hehe 1 picture of the guys in a holding cell before being moved to their cells and 1/2 of Europe is in an uproar.  Ever think maybe we have then chackled to protect ourselves?

 Yeah right, you mean when isreali gunmen go out and shoot at 13 yr old girls at a Bar Mistfa right?  Or like today that isreali gunman shot 20 palestinians right?  Damn those isreali terrorist, err.. wait I'm sorry these weren't Isrealis they were palestinian.



 grrrrrrrrrrrrrr your mentality pisses me off....

[Peer]

Your arrogance is funny but only that.

You still defend the undeniable terroristic policy of the actual government of Israel under Sharon.

Face the fact that in the occupied palestine territory also the Israelis are acting like terrorists.

So - again my question:

How will you fight terrorism if you are allied with a terroristic regime at the same time?

[Udie at Work]

Originally posted by Peer
Your arrogance is funny but only that.

You still defend the undeniable terroristic policy of the actual government of Israel under Sharon.

Face the fact that in the occupied palestine territory also the Israelis are acting like terrorists.

So - again my question:

How will you fight terrorism if you are allied with a terroristic regime at the same time?

 Simple,  Isreal is NOT a terrorist state.  Now once the Palestinians get it through their thick skulls to stop murdering inocent Isreali children and citizens they will have a chance at having their own land.   I'm not going to even bother listing all the consessions Isreal has made to Arafat.  I think you would be too closed minded to believe or understand them and what they would have meant to Isreal had the PLO or PA whatever they call themselves this year had complied with what they said they wanted in the first place.  Oh but wait,  what they really want is the destruction of Isreal.

 Simple question to you.  What countries did Sharon and Arafat grow up in?

[Peer]

You are wrong.

Israel IS a terroristic state.

Israeli troops behave like the SS-troops in the occupied territories. No one stops these hordes in their actions.
They destroy civilian buildings, airports, police departments and call this "fighting terrorism".
The SS had similiar arguments when they killed soviet civilians.

The consequences of such a terroristic policy is logical:
Extreme reations like suicide bombing. People who are willing to sacrifice their own life only to take some other with them.

This is moralicly and ethicly absolutely wrong but the desperation of the palestines is understandable. For decades they were tortured but the world ignored their fate.
When people see no way out - no way to change anything to a better way they fight with extreme fanatism.

Ironicly Israel produced the fanatics who are now fighting them itself.

And so there is no hope for peace in the occupied palestine territory.

What could we do ?

Nothing. Simple - but true.

We just will continue to see how the israeli and palestine terrorists fights each other and cause much pain to the innocents on both sides.

Welcome to reality...

[Udie]

Originally posted by Peer
You are wrong.

Israel IS a terroristic state.

Israeli troops behave like the SS-troops in the occupied territories. No one stops these hordes in their actions.
They destroy civilian buildings, airports, police departments and call this "fighting terrorism".
The SS had similiar arguments when they killed soviet civilians.

The consequences of such a terroristic policy is logical:
Extreme reations like suicide bombing. People who are willing to sacrifice their own life only to take some other with them.

This is moralicly and ethicly absolutely wrong but the desperation of the palestines is understandable. For decades they were tortured but the world ignored their fate.
When people see no way out - no way to change anything to a better way they fight with extreme fanatism.

Ironicly Israel produced the fanatics who are now fighting them itself.

And so there is no hope for peace in the occupied palestine territory.

What could we do ?

Nothing. Simple - but true.

We just will continue to see how the israeli and palestine terrorists fights each other and cause much pain to the innocents on both sides.

Welcome to reality...

 oh well gee, thanks for clearing that up. I guess we can get on with our lives now...

[Fatty]

In the interests of humoring the moral outrage by our more civilized cousins across the lake, what about the picture was inhumane?  Giving them earmuffs?  The effort to prevent a TB outbreak?  Come on, you've got us barbarians right where you want us with the spotlight, out with the list.

[brainless]

I`m reading the posts here and  imagine some very proud people. I can see that almost anybody here knows that mistakes are only done on the other side....that`s cool.

Someone, i think it was my father, once tought me that it`s human to make mistakes....aren`t all of us human in the one or other way? So, donīt we all make mistakes?

Germany has itīs history. A history that always is used to remind the Germans of how bad they are and what their duties right now are.....
Russia has itīs history. Same as above....
Israel has itīs history, perhaps not as much as the other states, but to be real...they are not what i would call nice to the Palestinians, cutting off the water in the desert  isnīt any better then shooting people.
Great Britain has a great history. But also with some dark spots.

There is no question about all that. And most people recognise that and take it as what it is, something we all should learn from.
But some people here should perhaps take a look back in the history of their own country and try to find out if there hasnīt been anything that they should learn!

There is no perfect state on this world, and in my opinion there is no important state today that hasnīt got some dark parts in their history.

Btw: I wonder what the second nuclear bomb in WWII has been good for, or if it really has been that important to drop it.

[funkedup]

Yeah I agree the second nuke was a mistake.  Maybe it should have been dropped on another Axis nation.

[Thrawn]

Can someone please post a link to this picture, as I can't seem to find it.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by funkedup
Yeah I agree the second nuke was a mistake.  Maybe it should have been dropped on another Axis nation.

Great idea, drop it on a county that has already surrendered and is occupied.  How many allied soldiers would that have killed?