Author Topic: P-38k  (Read 786 times)

Offline BigCrate

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P-38k
« on: January 29, 2002, 01:22:01 AM »
Hmm the P-38K. Now there's somethings I haven't heard for quite sometime. Was researching the P-38K.. Was to  tired to fly tonight.. (finshed up my lift kit and some loose end stuff on my bronco today) I don't know why I wanted to research this prototype of the 38.. I guess I never really researched before now.. And since I have been flying again things that I have thought have died in me are re awakeing... And I love it.
But enough about that. Is post is about the P-38K.
I think not very many people now about the P-38K..
Hell there was one one made.. And if you know about it you are a die hard 38 fan just like me! And if anyone has any info on this prototype please email me at CW4x4@hotmail.com. I'm trying to get all this outta the way so just bare with me!
ok on to the good stuff.

"The P-38K was the benchmark against which all other variants of the P-38 Lightning must be compared." The P-38K was the best preforming P-38! And probaly the best preforming fighter of the war. Since the beginning of the war for the US. Lockheed was always searching for the way to improve the 38..  Lockheed wanted to put RR merlin engines in the 38 so bad they could taste it. Installing merlin engines in a 38 would get rid of the turbosuperchargers.. Including the turbo intercoolers witch would make a more aerodynamic package. Also they could move the Prestone radiators to under the engines like on the P-40. The additional advantage of this location. Was to reduce the length of cooling plumbing.. And reduced the risk of battle damage to the system. If these options were put into motion the result would have been a reduction in drag and weight. Also the removal of the turbos would have freed up space in the wings for a more fuel
capacity. Speed at medium alts when have been increased.. But
climb rate and service ceiling would have suffer.. Because the  merlin engines didn't have the horsepower at high alt as the allison engines did. The War Production Board was unwilling to shut down the production line for several months to retool for major design changes required for the engine swap. As a result, the Merlin project was shelved. No P-38s ever flew with merlin engines andstories of merlin powered 38s are with out a doubt a myth.
Lockheed still wanted to boost the performance of the 38.. Lockheed paid close attention to the performance gains achieved with the P-47 when the new "high activity" Hamilton Standard propellers where first fitted on a Republic P-47C in mid 1942 (later, in mid 1943, these propellers were retro-fitted in Britain).
The new prop increased the jugs climb rate and acceleration greatly. So lockheed install Hamilton Standard hydraulic propellers on of one of the test 38s.. The test 38 was a extensively modified P-38E.. With the original intercoolers replaced with type installed onthe J model. The initial test results were very encouraging and a P-38G service test airframe (422-81, AFF serial number 42-13558) was selected to be modified.
Not only the props got changed.. The engines as well.  The airframe was configured for the Allison V1710F-15 powerplants which were rated at over 1,875 bhp in War Emergency Power (as compared to 1,725 bhp for the V1710F-17 in the P-38L). This was the only 38 to get configured so. This potent combination of the engine/propeller promised excellent performance. The new props needed a new bigger spinner and the thrust line was slightly higher as well. And new cowling were need to blend into the engine nacelles. also the new props needed a gear reduction in the gearboxes. The Curtiss Electric props had a normal ratio of 2.00 to 1. The ratio was changed to 2.36 to 1. Flight tests of the P-38k started in late February through the end of April 1943.
Performance was better than hoped for.
Maximum speed at critical altitude (29,600 ft) was 432 mph (Military Power). At 40,000 feet, the "K" zipped along at a speed that was 40 mph faster than the current production P-38J could attain at this same height. Maximum speed in War Emergency Power, at critical altitude, was expected to exceed 450 mph. The increase in ceiling was just as remarkable. Flown to 45,000 ft on an extremely hot and humid day, Lockheed engineers predicted a "standard day" service ceiling in excess of 48,000 ft.
The P-38-K-1-LO flew against a P-51B and a P-47D. This Lightning proved to be vastly superior to both in every category of measured performance. What astounded the evaluation team was the incredible rate of climb demonstrated by the P-38K. From a standing start on the runway, the aircraft could take off and climb to 20,000 feet in 5 minutes flat! The "K", fully loaded, had an initial rate of climb of 4,800 fpm in Military Power. In War Emergency Power, over 5,000 fpm was predicted.
In light of this incredible level of performance, you would certainly expect that the Government would be falling all over themselves to quickly get the P-38K into production. Yet, this was not the case. The War Production Board was unwilling to allow a short production suspension in order to get new tooling on line for the required change to the engine cowling. Even when Lockheed promised that the stoppage would only be for 2 or 3 weeks, their request was turned down. If War Production Board would have taken there head out of there ass.. The P-38K would have been the main stay fight in ETO and the P-51D would not have been needed.. And the P-38K could have been the best US fighter of the war! I wrote this to show everyone there was a P-38K. But also to see if HTC would put a P-38K in AH. This would would work if they perked the toejam out of it! Like they did with the 262. And maybe they won't be like the pig headed War Production Board. And turn this request down. I hope yall enjoyed yourselfs while you reading this I know this thing was long hell.. But maybe a few people learned something tonight.. OH AND HELP BRING THE P-40 TO AH!

I used some lines from this website...
http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/P-38K.html


CW

Offline wsnpr

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P-38k
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2002, 02:34:00 AM »
If they can put in a Ta152 in AH, they can put in a P38K  :)

Offline MikeKA

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« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2002, 02:42:48 AM »
That's pretty interesting (and entertaining) information.  Thanks alot for sharing it.  I think its a great idea for HTC to put a P38K in AH as a perk plane.  I really hope they consider it (Although I would probably never fly it... i have an aversion lol).  I would like to see alot of planes in AH... p-40 included.  I'd like to see B29s, and B24s (my grandad was a bombadier on a B24).  Anyways, good info and good idea.  However, I think we should both don our flame retardent gear asap.  I can already feel the heat.

Offline DblTrubl

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P-38k
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2002, 03:49:15 AM »
I'd love to see the 38K in AH. I'm not holding my breath though.

Offline batdog

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P-38k
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2002, 07:41:38 AM »
I'd love it BUT... the plane was never produced beyond ONE plane I think. HTC isnt even going to consider this. If they did it would open a HUGE bag of worms and a scream for every "uber" prototype out there.

I'd say we have many more worthy planes that need to be included anyway.


xBAT
Of course, I only see what he posts here and what he does in the MA.  I know virtually nothing about the man.  I think its important for people to realize that we don't really know squat about each other.... definately not enough to use words like "hate".

AKDejaVu

Offline Wilbus

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P-38k
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2002, 08:26:41 AM »
Not a try to flame anyone but, what exactly do you mean with
Quote
If they can put in a Ta152 in AH, they can put in a P38K
? There was, like Bigcrate said, 1 P38K that was produced, if I am not misstaking, it was never used it combat and never got anywhere near the enemy.

The TA152 was a finnished plane, not some prototype and there were about 150 produced, from H versions, A and B aswell and most of them saw combat.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline K West

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P-38k
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2002, 08:39:06 AM »
TA152 was an actual production and deployed aircraft. The P 38K was a one-off prototype that there aren't even any pictures of.

 It would have been nice had it been developed and produced back then but, well it wasn't. Niether was the P-72.  Warren Brody and CC Jordan can explain the politics behind the botched decision,  on not putting the Merlin in the P-38,  than I.


 My motto is, YES to production birds. No to prototypes.

  Westy

Offline Tac

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P-38k
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2002, 09:50:37 AM »
Aw cmon. Consider it the only perked 38 ever :) *G*

Offline BigCrate

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P-38k
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2002, 09:57:32 AM »
Hmmmm. Maybe they could put it as a offline plane or somthing..
Hell I don't know... And there was a pic of the 1st test mule you can at the website link.. It had the paddle props installed and some other stuff but wasn't the P-38K.. Umm maybe in 15 years
I'll build a full size replica of the P-38K.hehhehhehe
Now that would be a hugh project to undertake! But I think
someone has to do something to show the world the P-38
that never was.. Also it woul be cool as hell to show up at a airshow with a 430mph P-38. Don't yall think? :D

Offline Wilbus

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P-38k
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2002, 11:08:05 AM »
Don't wanna flame you bigcrate, and I won't, BUT spending resources on an offline plane only is really just a waste of time I am afraid, and the time is better spent on making a plane that saw action, P51H maybe? Might satisfy some of you allies ;)
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline Hamish

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P-38k
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2002, 11:20:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by K West
My motto is, YES to production birds. No to prototypes.

  Westy



So the F7F Tigercat and F8F Bearcat would be okay? :D
(Perked as much as the F4U-4 of course) ;)

Bring the Bearcat to AH!



Hamish!
Go Navy!

Offline K West

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P-38k
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2002, 11:53:36 AM »
"So the F7F Tigercat and F8F Bearcat would be okay?"

 IMO yes.  Not to mention the P-51H, P-82A and P-80A I also think the same regarding the DO-335,  the A7M (tough call on this one), the Meteor MK III, the Spitfire MkXVII as well as the He-162.  

 I almost wish we could have the  Hawker Fury and the LA-11 but those planes did not see production untill '46 and '47 let alone deployment to units.

   Westy

Offline Wilbus

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P-38k
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2002, 01:00:18 PM »
Although there is no plane I'd like to fly more then the DO335 I'd say no to this one, and all other You (Kwest) mentioned, except for the P51H.

The reason I say this is because, IMO, a plane must have seen some action during the war to be in AH, even if it's only 1 kill or 1 "death" or even just an encounter with an enemy, I count that as Action. BUT P82, and P80 etc never saw action, nor did the meteor MK III, The Meteor MKIII flew on the other side of the channel for a few sorties but that's it.

HE162 saw combat although it wasn't a very good plane and was difficult to handle.

AFAIK The DO335 (unfortunatly) never saw action and is thus, just like many others, not a valid plane.

Add the Meteor MKI if you want an allied jet, was the only one that saw action, wich was only vs V1's but that's action.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline lazs2

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P-38k
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2002, 01:09:00 PM »
The bearcat had more than three times as many planes in service as the ta152  did in WWII and would be a lot more useful and fun in the arena than the 152.
lazs

Offline fdiron

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P-38k
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2002, 01:31:37 PM »
Unless they changed the shape of the P38s wing, it is still going to compress at lower speeds than the P51.  I am pretty sure they never increased the P38s critical mach number.