Suggestion for the Ta152

[thrila]

Mandoble you gotta be joking with the tiffie.

Saying the tiffy is better than the 190D  and p51D at common alts is such a vague statement.


Better? you mean it is faster? (than p51, 190D faster by a couple of mph if i remember correctly)

Better acceleration than both? (yes, better than both......shhh about that other thread tac )

There are also many things the tiffy does a lot worse than both.

Such as roll rate (bad at all speeds)

Bleeds E badly

Climbs poorly


Just because the tiffy performs better than them both in a couple of areas it automatically labels it as better?  No, i don't think so.


Also mandoble, what do you mean by common combat altitudes?  The tiffy performance starts to die off once to gets over 10k and is more or less useless at above 15k.


Perking a tiffy would be crazy, although it is uber for a 1941 plane.
If the tiffy was rare and/or a late war ride there would be more of an argument to perk it, but it isn't is it.

[Wilbus]

Don't forget that the tiffie turns great aswell, it's an Uber plane IMO, maybe not perkable but uber.

Took it into a low, slow turnfight/furrball the other day, came out allive with 8 kills, Wouldn't have done that in either a P51 or a Dora.

[milnko]

The CHOG was perked due to complaints of "over crowding" in the MA.

Perk cost should be based on performance not numbers.

I used to use the Dora alot when it first came out, and have used the TA a couple times, and I'd rather go H2H against a Pony in the Dora.

Now I usually take a 190A-5 as it's an excellent ride when used below 20k where most MA fights occur.

Seems to me that with the early war planeset arriving next release, (Spit1, 109E, etc.) for them to have any survivability in the MA, the perk system is gonna need revamped or a RPS is gonna need to be implemented.

If they don't revamp the current system, there is little need to add early war planes as they will see little use outside of the CT Arena and Events.

Don't git me wrong... I'd love a P-40E to use,  however we all know it wouldn't survive 3 mins. against a Pony, Dora, La7, or N1K2, but I'd sure look cool dyin' in it.

And lookin' cool is EVERYTHING!

[MANDOBLE]

Thrila,

Typh roll rate is more than acceptable, if you look at NACA charts, it seems it has the rollrate exagerated. In the other hand, 190s have their rollrate reduced to compensate potential warps.

Typh outaccelerates both D9 and P51 in level flight (I always thought it had an enormous drag). With the P51D, the difference in acceleration is realy "BIG".

Typh outdives and outzooms D9.

Typh has better control at near stall speeds than D9 (much better) and P51D (even using flaps).

P51D and D9 are marginaly faster than typh,  but this is overcompensated by diving, zooming and level acceleration characteristics.

Typh outturns by far 190D9, probably also P51D.

Typh has 4 hispanos.

Typh has much better jabo capability than D9.

Typh is not only better, it is much better.

And you and me know very well that MA combats are well below 15k.

Near sea level, Typhs and Yaks are the only real dangers for a La7.

[qts]

leave it perked......15 perks anybody can get that in 1 sortie

Speak for yourself. I'm lucky to get 5 perks in an evening.

[Karnak]

MANDOBLE,

According to the NACA charts, the Fw190 rolls slightly too slowly at low speed and too fast at high speed.  The exact same problem as the AH Spitfire.  And that is assuming that the force limits on the stick are the same in AH as the 50lb limit in the NACA test.  The Spit's cockpit allowed 60lbs of stick force to be applied to the Spit's alirons according to RAF tests.

The AH Typhoon had its roll rate drastically reduced 2 or 3 versions ago in order to comply with the historical data, in case you hadn't noticed.  Try flying one, a Lanc practically out rolls it.

Advantages the Fw190D-9 has over the Typhoon:

The Fw190D-9 easily outclimbs the Typhoon.
The Fw190D-9 vastly out rolls the Typhoon.
The Fw190D-9's WEP lasts 3 times as long as the Typhoon's WEP.
The Fw190D-9's ammo lasts longer than the Typhoon's.
The Fw190D-9 is significantly faster at higher altitudes.
The Fw190D-9 is slightly faster at low altitudes.
The Fw190D-9 has better visibility than the Typhoon.
The Fw190D-9 has greater fuel endurance than the Typhoon.

Advantages the Typhoon has over the Fw190D-9:

The Typhoon is much easier to hit with due to the muzzle velocity of its cannons.
The Typhoon accelerates slightly better than the Fw190D-9.
The Typhoon turns better than the Fw190D-9.
The Typhoon carries more ordinance than the Fw190D-9.
The Typhoon dives better than the Fw190D-9.
The Typhoon has a greater variety of ordinance available.


While the Typhoon is a good aircraft, I think that the Fw190D-9 is a better fighter.  If you are saying that the Typhoon is a better fighter in the K/T sense that you push, well, that very well may be.  But then the Mossie is probably a better fighter by K/T than the Fw190D-9 or Typhoon as it out turns both and out rolls the Tiffie.

[MANDOBLE]

the Fw190 rolls slightly too slowly at low speed and too fast at high speed.  The exact same problem as the AH Spitfire...
1 - The Fw190D-9 easily outclimbs the Typhoon.
2 - The Fw190D-9 vastly out rolls the Typhoon.
3 - The Fw190D-9's ammo lasts longer than the Typhoon's.
4 - The Fw190D-9 has greater fuel endurance than the Typhoon.
5 - The Fw190D-9 has better visibility than the Typhoon.


First, 190A8 rolls vastly slower at low speeds, and slightly faster at very hi speeds. Just rest the AH curve area from the NACA curve area, a major lose of roll rate for AH 190A8 version

Rest both areas for Spit, a major gain in roll rate for AH SpitIX version.

1 - True for substained climb (little usage in combat), radically opposite results for zoom climb (key factor for air combat).
2 - True at hi speeds, at low speed that is purely a defensive move.
3 - That is a major D9 disadvantage, it is due D9 very poor ROF. And de 13mm ammo is almost useless.
4 - U sure of that???
5 - With that bar going all the way on top of the canopy?? With the reduced frontal field of view? D9 has ONLY better six visibility.

If you want, look for me at MA to do some comparative tests in DA.

I would agree with u about D9 being better than Typh only if common fight altitudes were > 20k.

[Karnak]

MANDOBLE,

I've alwasy found that the zoom climb on the Fw190D-9 was excellent.  So is the Tiffie's, but I've had less success with it.  The sustained climb is not nearly so useless as you make it out to be.  It governs the altitude you manage to obtain before you reach enemy airspace.  True, you can simply circle climb to the desired altitude, or take off from a more distant airfield, but given the Tiffie's limited fuel range that severly limits your time in enemy airspace.  It also incurs a hit to the K/T ratio.


Doesn't roll rate help with scissors?  I'm horrible at scissors so I can't judge this.


The Fw190D-9's ammo lasts a lot longer than the Typhoon's because it has 250 rounds per cannon instead of 140, not because of ROF issues.

I discount the machine guns of 190s, 109s and Spits.  When they're out of cannon ammo its time to go home.  I have 1 kill with the 4 .303s on the Spit IX (a Typhoon) and 1 kill with the 13mms on the D-9 (a B-26B) that did not involve a single 20mm hit.


Having flown a tour in which I flew the vast majority of my sorties in the Typhoon and Fw190D-9 I can absolutely state that the Fw190D-9 has better fuel endurance.  At least 50% better, maybe even 100% better.  Tiffies guzzle gas like nothing else, except a Tempest.


I never found the bar to be much of a problem.  All 6 rear views are much better on the Fw190D-9, not just the straight 6.

I'd say that the Fw190D-9 has a definate advantage above 10,000ft and below that it is pretty even, maybe favoring the Tiffie below 5,000ft.

[Kweassa]

the Typhies outturn 109G-2s if the turn fight lasts long.

 the Tempies outturn La-7s and Yak-9Us if the turn fight lasts long.


 ...

 I thought their elevator authority was supposed to be horrible..

 Dunno why I got that idea though.

[Sikboy]

Is that before Perks, I would NEVER have heard the argument that the TA-152 wasn't "That Good" In fact, about the only thing I had ever heard about the Ta-152 was that it was the "best prop driven fither of the war" and that "Had the Germans put this up in Numbers they could have won the war" I'm certainly not accusing anyone of changing their stripes here, but it is funny to see planes like the Ta-152 and the F4-u4 being debated as "not that good, all things considered"

-Sikboy

[Wilbus]

Tiffie is more or less equal to Dora around 10k, alot better bellow 5k.

Tiffie Turns even slightly better then the 190 A5 in sustained turns, it accelerates far better.

You claim that the combat time of it is very limited, take off with 100% fuel and 2xDT's and you'll have more then enough when you reach your target, even if you climb away and get 20k alt before you reach the target you will have more then enough. Specially at those ranges the fights are in the MA.

When it comes to guns, you say it's got 140 rpg, well, true BUT it's got 4 guns, it's got 4x140 and it's got better guns wich are both easier to hit with and cause more dammage then the guns in the 190.

If you wanna test ammo duration, you only fire 2 guns at the time since that is the number of 20mm the Dora has. Belive me, the Tiffie ammo will last longer.

4x140 = 560 rounds total, fire these 2 guns at a time (wich will give a better result then in the Dora) and you're ammo will last longer.

Allso, the 13mm in the 190 adds up to the weight, although they can cause pretty good dammage on straight flying planes where you can get a nice close hit square they or often useless in B&Z where the enemy sees you and turns away, what matters there are either cannons (wich the tiffie is superior in, no matter using 2 or 4 at the same time) or alot of 50 cal guns such as the US planes.
If you get rid of teh 13mm in the Dora, it gets better performance, but who wanna waste 950 rounds out in the thin air every flight?

[Wilbus]

Just tested, 190 20mm ammo duration is 24 seconds.

Tiffie ammo duration when firing 2 guns at a time is 26 seconds.

[Vortex]

Originally posted by Wilbus
If you get rid of teh 13mm in the Dora, it gets better performance, but who wanna waste 950 rounds out in the thin air every flight?  

Having a bit more flexibility over the amount of ammo loaded sure would be handy. I fly the Fw's a fair bit and when upping in any of them I invariably blow off a bunch of mg ammo. The A5 has a ton that's pretty much useless, and the A8, D9, and F8 have a whole lot more than one needs, being that I only use them for the odd burst to get a plane to turn, etc. Starting every flight by blowing off half the mg ammo load does indeed get to be a bit of an annoyance after a while.

Vortex

[Wilbus]

And drasticly decreses your hit %.

[MANDOBLE]

Look, for example, at the P38L hangar options, there are two differents amounts of ammo to choice from.