Author Topic: Suggestion for the Ta152 (Read 688 times)

Vortex · « **on:** January 29, 2002, 11:18:54 AM »

I was wondering if we could try this plane unperked for a camp? I think when all the dust settles you'll find it gets used a lot less than some of its contemporaries such as the La7, P-51, G10 or D9. Actually I can pretty much guarantee it will as all of the above are far superior in all the areas that matter for arena play.

As B&Z planes go the 152 really isn't that stellar. Its not terrible either, but its got as many noticable weaknesses as it does exploitable strengths. Below 20k there aren't any E-fighters that it can outrun. All the planes mentioned above as well as the Typh and 51B have comparible or better speeds at pretty much all alts elow 20k. Although the plane is a bit more stable than the D9 that comes at a pretty noticable cost in that the wings peal off pretty easily if you're not careful...moreso if you don't burn the fuel from them first. About the only area it shines is above 30k, and how often does one do anything up there?

What one also finds with this plane is how poor its non-WEP performance is. Lose that and about all you'll be able to run from is the pure stallfighters. Most everything else will run you down pretty easily.

This would be a good thing to try with the v109 release imo as the "newness" of the 152 would be offset somewhat by the other planes coming into the fray. I do think after the initial excitement wears off, and folks find themselves getting run down by everything flying, folks will move back to their La7's, 51's, D9's, etc. I'd be amazed if, over the second half of a camp, it saw more action than any of the above mentioned planes.

It just seems a shame that a marginal arena plane such as this be wasted as a perked item. It just isn't that stellar a ride.

Vortex

Urchin · « **Reply #1 on:** January 29, 2002, 12:36:56 PM »

I guess I'll play devils advocate. I've advocated dropping the cost a whole lot of times, so I have a good idea of what people will say.

1. Someone is mad that their uber-LW ride isnt so uber. Poor Luftwhiner.

2. Someone is mad that they got shot down in their poor Uber-Lwhiner ride.

3. If it is so mediocre why do you want to fly it? Let it stay at 30 points, the real problem is that the C-Hog is perked at 8. It should be free.

4. This plane is great. Just the other day I had it up to 57,000 feet. I didn't get killed the whole day, and I got a probable on Sputnik. What other plane could do that?

/sarcasm off.

AKDejaVu · « **Reply #2 on:** January 29, 2002, 12:46:24 PM »

I'd like to see it unperked for a tour so that the people that insist it "isn't really all that great" or "not that many would use it" would finally shut up. Oh well.. that's not gonna happen anyways:(

The plane is an excellent ride. It merrits being perked. The cost is quite debatable... but the perking is quite valid.

AKDejaVu

Tac · « **Reply #3 on:** January 29, 2002, 01:38:36 PM »

Yeah, perk the D9 instead *G*

ergRTC · « **Reply #4 on:** January 29, 2002, 01:49:36 PM »

I think the plane is pretty uber when you are up high. I cant imagine ever thinking of trying to dog it below 25k. Just not gonna happen. Maybe just drop the perks a little bit. 15 perks may be more appropriate.

Wotan · « **Reply #5 on:** January 29, 2002, 03:14:17 PM »

leave it perked......15 perks anybody can get that in 1 sortie

I would have kept it at 30. Its a rare bird as it was in rl so it is in ah.

If very few fly well thats fine perk system works.

No free lunch

lemur · « **Reply #6 on:** January 29, 2002, 04:46:39 PM »

Just follow my suggestion from another thread:

For 30 perks you get it as it currently is in the game.

For 15 points you get it as it was in real life: Teething problems, powerplant a bit temperamental, handling still in need of some fine tuning etc.

~Lemur

Karnak · « **Reply #7 on:** January 29, 2002, 06:31:53 PM »

I don't think it sucks. I always took the Ta152 fan's word for it that it was horrible at low altitude. That it was slow down low.

Then I actually looked at it and tested it. The thing sure wasn't slow at any altitude. It might not be a speed demon on the deck, but it is quite fast on the deck. The Ta152H-1 can sustain 363mph at sea level. That is faster than the vast majority of fighters in AH, including the 2 most common (admittedly the next 2 are both faster).

I think that the biggest thing holding the Ta152H-1 back is a lack of interest in it. There is a very vocal group of people that pushed for it and voted for it on Pyro's poll, but that's about all there is. There aren't that many people who really want to fly it out of interest in the aircraft. Unperking it would cause a brief spike in its usage by people who want to fly the best and easiest fighter that would subside when they reailized that it was easier to get quickie kills in their Spit IXs, N1K2s, P-51Ds and La-7s. That would basically leave the fans of the Ta152H-1 to play with it unhindered by perk costs. True, there would be a general usage increase by people who would have flown Fw190D-9s before, but there would not be a huge upsurge in the individuals who regularly use the Ta152H-1.

My question is, how would this make AH better?

Tac · « **Reply #8 on:** January 29, 2002, 09:51:12 PM »

I would fly the 152 much more than the D9. the 152 turns better and stalls less imo, plus its got Sweeet tater guns.

Maybe HT can try and swap the 152 and D9 as perks? Making the D9 be 10 perks or so.

Wilbus · « **Reply #9 on:** January 30, 2002, 05:23:58 AM »

If the D9 gets perked, so should the P51D (wich turns alot better) and LA7.

150 TA152's were built and used in service, 200 F4U-1C's, not that many more so don't blame the numbers.

TA152 isn't that great above 30k actually, all it has got there is speed but manuverabilty and climb rate sucks bad even with wep, a Spit 9 outmanuvers it and outclimbs it without much problems. Had a fight with a spit at 36k the other day, I had wep and 30% fuel, he kept outclimbing me without any trouble.

Should defeinatly be more TA152's flying, although it is not very well known there were more flying then most people think, although most of them were doomed to protect airfields and low alt

Lower perk cost to maybe 10-15?

PS. P38 UBER in everything but very high speed handeling (where is sucks bad) and deck speed wich is still pretty good. Perk it too?

Tac · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2002, 08:26:23 AM »

hehe so uber it bleeds down to 340 mph in level flight in a few seconds after a high speed dive.

Dont compare this fighting plane to a runstang or hunstang pwease

*G*

Wilbus · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2002, 09:20:33 AM »

Can't run from many of the E fighters. What it can't run from though, it can easily outmanuver.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2002, 10:04:02 AM »

I would fly it more if the wings didn't snap off at 5 Gs.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2002, 11:35:00 AM »

You guys talking about perking P51(B&D) and 190D are forgetting something better than both at our common combat alts and with 4 hispanos: Tiffie.

Vortex · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2002, 11:42:57 AM »

To clarify a couple points that have popped up in this thread...

To be honest I hadn't even considered the number of 152's produced/flying in WWII as I think its pretty much irrelevant for the MA. Using such a reference point takes one down a rather slippery slope for general gameplay. There is, after all, absolutely nothing historical about the MA short of a few passive references to planes...and even that is pretty loose. Beyond that though, nada. However, the real problem is that if you do apply that criteria to one plane then you must apply it to all. If historical availability is an issue for MA play it must be so fully and completely, and not selectively or partially as is the case in this instance. Ergo all planes must be regulated based on historical numbers. Only "X" amounts of Fw-A8's can fly at a time, which is much more than the Niki's available, although less than the 109, etc, etc. The entire thing gets to be a real mess. Historical availability makes good sense though as a precursor to help determine if you will build a plane, or not. Once built though, I think relative performance really ought to be the only criteria when deciding if perks should be applied, and to what degree.

I would have to agree with Tac though in that if the 152 is legitimately perked, the D9 certainly should be perked as well. It is easily its equal (better in some areas, worse in others, in the end an easy match though). Along with that must go the 51D, and La7 to be sure, and possibly theTyphoon and G10. They're all in the same league. If anything the 152 would be at the mid-bottom end of a comparison between these planes.

However I realize that perking any of these other planes just isn't going to happen, and that's not a bad thing either as it is unnecessary. I think the perk test should be based on whether or not the plane would see an excessive amount of use in the MA if it weren't perked. Clearly the 152 would initially, that's a given. In short order though I think interest would taper off. A good many of the La7, 51D, G10, Typhoon and D9 drivers fly those planes in part because they can, in most situations, run away when things go bad. That's a significant safety blanket. In most cases the 152 won't provide them that option, or at best it will do so to a much more limited degree. That itself will keep many away. To be effective in the plane you do have to be quite savy and maintain excellent SA as you are not going to use raw speed to bail you out. Nor can you dive away due to wing rip. Nor can you out maneuver a well flown e-fighter of any sort due to g limitations. Experienced players will likely still do well, but no more than they would in any other marginal plane. I really do think the majority will just get frustrated with it and return to the other planes that offer them a few more options when things go bad.

I defintely don't see a camp with it running perkless as shaking much up. After the intial newness wears off I think you'll find its usage levels down near the middle range of the scale somewhere.

Vortex