Author Topic: presidential order  (Read 1221 times)

Offline Eagler

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presidential order
« Reply #30 on: February 01, 2002, 12:35:30 PM »
Ok, If having an abortion means "sorry, I "choose" not to have a baby/fetus" , I say any paid for by tax dollars requires the "mother " to also have a hysterectomy.

Problem solved. We only pay for one. Later, they can adopt. Another problem solved.

Not talking about an abortion done to save the mothers life, as low a percentage as I'm sure those are, I'm talking about the birth control ones.

Just saying you take the option away or put a very heavy price on it, maybe everyone would keep their pants on alittle longer...
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Offline easymo

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« Reply #31 on: February 01, 2002, 12:52:56 PM »
This has always looked like a bunch of people, who don't have the responsibility(men) trying to dictate to the people that do (woman) how they should handle it.  For example. 30 percent of black men deal with an unwonted pregnancy. 100 percent of black woman  deal with it. The percentage of men who take a powder, varies depending on what group you are looking at.  But there is always a percentage that split.  Until we develop the back bone to force men to face their responsibility (Prison time comes to mind), we haven't got toejam to say about what happens. It is up to the lady to do what she feels she must.
« Last Edit: February 01, 2002, 01:01:21 PM by easymo »

Offline Mighty1

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« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2002, 01:32:57 PM »
Eagler I never said I was an expert at abortion. I have never known anyone who had an abortion either.

My point is that some of these people who say you need to have the kid and raise it yourself or put it up for adoption don't even bother to adopt a kid themselfs because it would be to much of a bother. They have no problem telling someone else how to run their life but they wouldn't dream of helping out the poor kids who's parents can't support them. If you truely believed all that garbage about abortions being murder then everyone of you should be waiting in line to adopt a kid. that will never happen because most of you will come up with some BS exscuse of why you can't. No No it's better to populate the world with kids that have no future than have an abortion.

The comment about eating meat is for those of you who think killing is wrong but have no problem killing a cow for a cheeseburger. Killing is killing whether it's a human or a cow or a mouse it's still taking a life for your own comfort.

Despite my desire for women to have a choice if my daughter came home pregnant I would still try to talk her into keeping the kid. I just don't think I have the right to tell her what she HAS to do.
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Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2002, 01:49:15 PM »
I never said they were all bad Udie.

However, statistics have gone a long way to prove that the majority of crimes comes from low income families with multiple children that live off of welfare. They learn the crime game young, you know, steal this or that to help the family out or so you can get that new bike that your mom/dad can't buy. The parents themselves are irresponsible, that's why they're in the situation (for the most part). You expect them to raise good children when the only reason they have them is to recieve more food stamps and/or welfare?

I never said they all are, but the majority of crimes don't come from people who are better off... now do they?
-SW

Offline easymo

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« Reply #34 on: February 01, 2002, 02:33:28 PM »
I never said they all are, but the majority of crimes don't come from people who are better off... now do they?
-SW


No. But the crimes are vastly more costly. Look at enron.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2002, 02:55:55 PM »
Thats a good point somebody made back there..

Do lesbian feminist abortion types types say "Oh I just felt the parasitic fetal zygote oranism kick".  How nice............



But stranglly Im not for making abortion illegal. It makes me very uncomfortable but it should stay though hopefully not happen often.

Offline -dead-

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« Reply #36 on: February 02, 2002, 02:22:55 AM »
Quote
I never said they all are, but the majority of crimes don't come from people who are better off... now do they?
-SW


this may of course be because the vast majority of people who make the laws are better off too....  :D
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Offline mrsid2

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« Reply #37 on: February 02, 2002, 03:07:24 AM »
Excuse me, but the fetus that gets removed during abortion can not kick or do much anything yet because it's basically just a lump of protein. There are certain limits on how old the pregnancy can be when you perform the abortion.

I have a son who gave us some trouble during the first third of the pregnancy. We were running to the hospital because my wife had spontanious bleeding.. From the ultrasounds we could see the fetus is alive and well. However even that being my own child, I could not see him as a person yet. More like a mass of protein with some resemblance of human parts, head, hands, legs and eyes which were not properly developed yet. Did you know that a fish fetus and a human fetus look almost exactly the same during the first third of the pregnancy? They both have tails and everything..

In many cases the abortion is a blessing to both child and the mother. The mother may have been raped and got pregnant in the progress.. Do you think the mother wants to have the baby?

The mother may be 17 and having unfinished school.. You think the baby and the mother would have a good future if she gave birth then? Forcing an unwanted child in the world does nobody any good. It probably just guarantees the kid a miserable life in some foster home or institution - or a very poor home.

The mother may have become pregnant despite the use of protection, you think it's better to have that unplanned child instead of a quick chemical abortion (the remorse pill) within the next week?

The fetus may be found genetically defective during pregnancy, would you want your wife to bear and give birth to a child with two heads or no brain at all? The most horrible thing is that often the ones who do so, get emotionally attached to the brainless living dead and nurture the horribly disabled child untill the unevitable bitter end. Both the child and the parents suffer.

Overpopulation is the biggest single problem of the planet at the moment. The catholic religion is not helping that much by banning all contraceptives - as if we were still living in 10 a.d. when the christians felt the need to be populated as much as possible. Now the religious groups want to ban the abortions, some of which were a direct cause of their own ban of contraceptives. Many kids feel so ashamed about the whole issue that they prefer to have sex unprotected instead of telling their family doctor or going to the shop to buy some.

The fact is that sexually mature humans tend to have sex without caring about the consequences. If the foolishness results in an unwanted pregnancy, it's by all means better to stop the pregnancy on its path instead of bringing yet another problem child to the world. A child that is not needed or wanted on this planet.

Those women who are crying after their aborted babies are probably ones that couldn't get any children after that.. Abortion includes a risk of losing your fertility. It also shows how hard it is for any woman to abort her baby. It's a very tough decision and the women won't go through it unless it's absolutely necessary.

Offline Udie

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« Reply #38 on: February 02, 2002, 07:48:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mrsid2
Excuse me, but the fetus that gets removed during abortion can not kick or do much anything yet because it's basically just a lump of protein. There are certain limits on how old the pregnancy can be when you perform the abortion.


 You're wrong.  I've seen it with my own eyes and heard testemony before congress to the contrary.  A human embryo or fetus is a HUMAN BEING not just a warm slimey diddly stain.

I have a son who gave us some trouble during the first third of the pregnancy. We were running to the hospital because my wife had spontanious bleeding.. From the ultrasounds we could see the fetus is alive and well. However even that being my own child, I could not see him as a person yet. More like a mass of protein with some resemblance of human parts, head, hands, legs and eyes which were not properly developed yet. Did you know that a fish fetus and a human fetus look almost exactly the same during the first third of the pregnancy? They both have tails and everything..  

 yeah except one is a freaking human being and one is a fish.  Good to know you had your son :) I hope he is healthy and happy in life :)

In many cases the abortion is a blessing to both child and the mother. The mother may have been raped and got pregnant in the progress.. Do you think the mother wants to have the baby?

  I fail to see how killing something is a blessing to it.  Kinda like you're depressed over something,  here let me shoot you in the head then you won't be depressed anymore.  Ouch I cut my finger, here use this cleaver and cut you're arm off it will stop your finger from bleeding.

The mother may be 17 and having unfinished school.. You think the baby and the mother would have a good future if she gave birth then? Forcing an unwanted child in the world does nobody any good. It probably just guarantees the kid a miserable life in some foster home or institution - or a very poor home.

 Yeah you're right the kid would turn out bad because of it too, let's suck its brains out before it can get out of the womb.

The mother may have become pregnant despite the use of protection, you think it's better to have that unplanned child instead of a quick chemical abortion (the remorse pill) within the next week?  

 While not as bad as partial birth abortions, I still think it's an immoral thing to do.  Ofcourse your morals are diferent than mine and so on and so on.



The fetus may be found genetically defective during pregnancy, would you want your wife to bear and give birth to a child with two heads or no brain at all? The most horrible thing is that often the ones who do so, get emotionally attached to the brainless living dead and nurture the horribly disabled child untill the unevitable bitter end. Both the child and the parents suffer.

  No brains? ok you got me there,  I've seen the result of a child born with only 1/3 the normal brain mass.  I don't think there was any consiousness there at all.  But there are plenty of other birth defects that cause un needed abortions.  Search for old posts by me about my 22 year old step brother born with spinalbifida so bad his spine was exposed and he wasn't supposed to live through the night, or 6 months or 6 years.  He's almost 23 :)




Overpopulation is the biggest single problem of the planet at the moment. The catholic religion is not helping that much by banning all contraceptives - as if we were still living in 10 a.d. when the christians felt the need to be populated as much as possible. Now the religious groups want to ban the abortions, some of which were a direct cause of their own ban of contraceptives. Many kids feel so ashamed about the whole issue that they prefer to have sex unprotected instead of telling their family doctor or going to the shop to buy some.

 Pretty weak argument for murder.  Hell why stop at unborn humans, why not just go out and kill anybody over 75.  They're not productive anymore and most are sick, yeah we'll help them by killing them.

The fact is that sexually mature humans tend to have sex without caring about the consequences. If the foolishness results in an unwanted pregnancy, it's by all means better to stop the pregnancy on its path instead of bringing yet another problem child to the world. A child that is not needed or wanted on this planet.

 Yeah so let's murder it.

Those women who are crying after their aborted babies are probably ones that couldn't get any children after that.. Abortion includes a risk of losing your fertility. It also shows how hard it is for any woman to abort her baby. It's a very tough decision and the women won't go through it unless it's absolutely necessary.

 Dude you are so wrong.  A good friend of my mom's killed herself after she had her 1st child. Well mom told me it wasn't her first, she aborted the first.  Once she had the 2nd she realised what she had done to the first and couldn't live with herself, so now she's dead and her daughter grew up with out a mother or brother.

 You get an abortion they aught to rip the plumbing out with the DEAD BABY[/i][/u] so that you can never do that again.  

 Off to work :) What a way to start a saturday with abortion talk :D


disclaimer: if it sounds like I'm yelling at you I'm not, just get pretty emotional over this topic sometimes, er.. ok any topic ;)

Offline Udie

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« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2002, 07:59:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe
I never said they were all bad Udie.

However, statistics have gone a long way to prove that the majority of crimes comes from low income families with multiple children that live off of welfare. They learn the crime game young, you know, steal this or that to help the family out or so you can get that new bike that your mom/dad can't buy. The parents themselves are irresponsible, that's why they're in the situation (for the most part). You expect them to raise good children when the only reason they have them is to recieve more food stamps and/or welfare?

I never said they all are, but the majority of crimes don't come from people who are better off... now do they?
-SW



 I still fail to see how that justifies killing them in the womb before they ever have a chance to be good or bad.  Why not, instead of sending rice over to Somalia or Afganistan to feed the starving, just drop daisy cutters on em to end their missery?  
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Offline StSanta

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« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2002, 08:49:42 AM »
We've had this discussion three times before.

In them, I've presented my thoughts as sensible as possible. Those in the opposite camp have presented their ideas.

We've tried to convince each other, but in the end, it is a futile discussion: those who are against abortion will remain so even in the face of lots of evidence. Similarly, those who are pro abortion will refuse to budge even if a zygote started yelling through the womb of a woman "I think, therefore I am!".

This is of course when we talk about the radicals on both ends of the spectrum.

I enjoy these discussions in general. When the arguments are emotive in nature, I tend to sort of drop out.

Let's not beat a dead horse. Let's beat the Bishrook - want an argument for abortion? There you have it.