Tour 12 Fighter vs Fighter stats

[J_A_B]

Caution--somewhat long:

I always though "unbalancing" meant aircraft performance--that is, those planes which utterly outperform the "normal" planes would be perked.  That means planes like Tempests and ME-262's and such are "perk" material.  By this definition, a plane with average performance (F4U) is not really a "perk" plane.  When I subscribed to AH, the F4U-1C was common, but no superplane.  I would much rather fight a horde of F4U-1C's than a horde of N1K2's or Spit 9's, much less Tempests or jets.

I don't think a plane with 20% of the arena kills is "unbalancing".  Rather, I think that's a fact of online life.  As long as the planes perform differently, one will be used much more than the others.  This is the case in every game I've ever played, be it FPS, RPG, RTS, or Sim.  

Actually, 20% for the most popular plane/item/weapon shows EXCELLENT balance--usually the number is more like half!

The only sure way to balance plane usage is to limit total numbers of any plane allowed up at any given moment--which clearly wouldn't be very popular (and I myself would hate it).

I still fail to see the benefit of perking the F4U-1C.  The numbers will simply move to some other plane.  They WILL NOT equally disperse among the other available planes; instead a majority will move to the one with the percieved advantage.  No matter what, one plane will see a dispraportionate amount of use.

I do see RAM's point--it isn't "balanced" in one sense of the word when one plane dominates the arena.  And it does get old fighting the same plane over and over (this is why I wouldn't like a Historic Arena).  However, I think this sort of "imbalance" is an unavoidable part of online gaming.  I also doubt it's what the "perk" system was originally meant to address.

A more productive solution:  Develop tactics geared spcifically towards the destruction of F4U's, and fly accordingly.  STAY AWAY from those guns!  DO NOT take the chance of letting it get a snapshot!  Make sure you have more distance than normal when trying to rope them!  Negate their advantage.

In a nutshell, I don't think the F4U-1C is "unbalancing" in the same sense a ME-262 is.  That is MY opinion.  Whether the C-hog is fair or not all depends on your interpretation of the word "balance".  Being human, we won't all agree.

On a second thought--what really matters is HTC's defination of "unbalancing"!!!      


J_A_B

(and since I don't currently subscribe to AH I have no secret "agenda")

[RAM]

   

Originally posted by J_A_B:
On a second thought--what really matters is HTC's defination of "unbalancing"!!!          

Here you have it:
 http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/Forum1/HTML/007299.html

   

Originally posted by Pyro:
Perks are a way to balance the arena, not so much a means of classifying planes.  How many were produced or what its combat record was is not relevant.  Some planes intended to be perks may not need to be while others that weren't intended to be may end up getting perked.  Right now, the F4U-1C is accounting for about 20% of all kills in the arena.  I don't want to push the score values any further so perking it is about the only option left.  I don't really like the idea of making a carrier plane unavailable from the carrier.

K/D ratios and historical uses wont be reason for perking according to this quote. Overused planes in the Main arena ARE reason for perking.

F4U1-C Kills represent 20% of the total. Almost 8% more than the second in the list, the N1K2 (ammounting for 12%), and almost 13% than the third, the P51D (something near 7.5%).

The F4U1-C is almost 2 times more used than the N1K2, and almost 2.7 times more used than the P51D.

I think the data says enough.



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 02-04-2001).]

[J_A_B]

Thanks for posting that link--it's what I was hinting at.  I would've posted it myself, but I am not good with HTML.

That statement makes HTC's feelings on the matter clear (even though I personally don't agree because I think it'll end up with half the planeset perked).

Of course, HTC's opinion needn't stop the community from having a good discussion!


J_A_B

[715]

Maybe I missed, it but I find it hard to believe that no one mentioned that one hundred times as many c-hogs are destroyed per Aces High monthly tour than were ever manufactured in real life for all time.  

Every statistical analysis of AH scores that has been done has shown that the F4U-1C has the highest or second highest kill ratio and highest usage by far.  The reasons have been explained often: high speed and robustness that minimizes the "d" part of the k/d and good enough manouverability to take snap shots which, with the high ROF and high muzzle velocity of the 4 cannons, more often than not leads to an increase in the "k" part of the k/d equation.  So why is it's usage so high: because lots of AH customers want to do well and they aren't stupid.  The data is clear: what isn't clear is what is to be defined as "unbalancing".  When I first did a score analysis like the one starting this thread (from many tours ago and giving pretty much the same results) I did it to prove to myself that the c-hog had like a factor of two or three advantage.  In fact it usually hovers between only 30 and 50% advantage over most other planes.  But this smaller than I thought but statistically significant advantage, and the fact that it's usage rate in AH is so high (20%), and its usage rate in real life so low, places it, in my opinion, near or over the threshold of "unbalancing".  But others might have a different threshold.

I do admit, however, that on the rare occasion I do love blowing the big blue buggers up with my Spit IX.  Unfortunately, given my lack of skill and the factor of 35% the c-hog has over my Spit, the occasions are too rare  

715

[Lizard3]

   IMNSHO The Chog is a festering boil on the bellybutton of AH. I dislike it to the point you could say I foam a bit at the mouth when discussing it. It IS unbalancing. There is NO denying it. I not only hate to fight against them, I cannot stand to fight near my country men who fly them. I am not the best at gunnery and its very frustrating to bounce an enemy, ping him from left to right with many shells, and see the smoke start to pour from his engine, only to see some weazely chump in a chog breakout his antimatter particle cannons and get 2(!!!) hits on the same aircraft, watch it desintigrate with chumpawhumpa getting the kill. <<---(Look here for lessons in run on sentences)Thats assanine. I was also going to point out to the popularists in the crowd about if the boil was lanced, oops I mean perked, no one would loose anything. Everyone would get to enjoy the wonderful attributes of the Hog, they would just have to do it with the true to life girly lil 'ol 6 50 cal's that 99.99% of all sorties in WW2 F4's were fortunate to fly with, but others much more eloquent and tactful than myself have already pointed that out, so I wont.
   A few weeks ago while expressing my opinions in a general discussion on ch1, some punk 12 year old told me if I didn't like it, I could leave. My response was, "I've been here for a over a year, I love it, why should I leave." Oh, and something about diapers...but, the reality of the situation is, there are many options lurking around the corners and I vote with my coin.
   Oh, my last point. Its an abomination.
Liz

disclamer: The above views are solely those of the author and are in no way intended to reflect the views of anyone other than the author. Neither animals nor chumps were killed in the writing of this...rant.

[straffo]

To add my point and increase the waste of bandwith   I feel "raped" each time one of this "blue abomination" (c)RAM 2000 kill me at 1K+ (on my FE) with one exception when I thing I'm good enough to avoid a vulch (happend rarely  ))
 

[Dowding]

I had an aileron taken out by a chog at 1.8k, when my connex was good.

Another damaged me at 1.3k.

[CyranoAH]

Well, IMHO, CHog is fun for newbies because they can actually do some harm to the superior pilots they face.

When someone signs up for the PPL course, the first flight is done either in the morning or after the hot midday hours, and the instructor lets the student do most things, helping him if necessary, but the student has a wonderful time.

Then he's hooked.  

You could say that's the "bait"... so I may not be wrong to say that the CHog (and the Nikki) is the "bait" for all newbies to AH.

Eventually, they'll move to more challenging rides, but, heck, they are having fun from day 1!

Just my € 0.02

Daniel, aka CyranoDB


[This message has been edited by CyranoAH (edited 02-05-2001).]

[Jekyll]

 

Originally posted by Torgo:

As I've had to point out about a billion times, Marine Corps CHogs operated off Escort Carriers in the Okinawa Campaign, and in 1944-1945 there were a number of Marine squadrons that solely operated off Carriers.

As far as I know right now, I can't find any evidence of any combat CHog sorties that WEREN'T off Carriers.

Fer christs sake Torgo, I know that!  As you admit, you've posted interminably about the subject of Hog-Cs off carriers.

What I am saying is how do you best balance the arena?  Do you perk the CHog?  Or limit its availablility to ground fields?

Which is the lesser of two evils?