Author Topic: That uber Ki-61 (Read 983 times)

Fatty · « **Reply #15 on:** February 05, 2002, 04:46:53 PM »

It's one of my favorite planes because.....

It is very easy to get kills in.

No complex explaination, people simply refuse to believe it can compete so they don't fly it. Then again that's the case with most of the top k/d rides, people always put the case forward of how hard their plane is to fly, and it's only got a good k/d because they're excellent pilots and are inflating it.

Pongo · « **Reply #16 on:** February 05, 2002, 08:36:53 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Lephturn
I flew the Tony in the CT during Fire in the Sky whenever the Axis numbers were low. It's a really nice little plane.

Strangely enough, it is VERY similar to the Hellcat. I am a guy that flies the Jug mostly and the Hellcat sometimes, and I found the Tony to be a great little plane. Very similar to the Hellcat in many respects, without quite as good diving ability. The Tony turns a bit better, but it's really a very good match to the Hellcat. Tony Vs. Hellcat battles are really tight fights, and all else being equal the better E manager will win.

Lost an excellent fight the other day to to a hellcat in the CT. We merged at 18k me in a Ki him in the kitten. And we both did a little bit of everything for about 5 turns. we both went high at the same time and I lost track of him in the unfamiliar cockpit...ooops. once he was behind me I couldnt extend out of 50 cal range and he held down the trigger as I tried to dive and sissor away.
I have to aggree they seem well matched. I wouldnt want to take on Math in a hellcat in one but it was a very good fight.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #17 on:** February 05, 2002, 08:56:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by qts
Know thy opponent. Clearly, a Spit must use BnZ tactics against this aircraft.

BnZ it? Hardly. I'll turn at medium speeds long enough to sucker a Ki-61 into a turnfight, at which point I'll hit the brakes and make them pay for their silliness.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Nath[BDP] · « **Reply #18 on:** February 05, 2002, 09:22:51 PM »

Quote

ROLF The reason Mitsu has a 10:1 K/D ratio in it is because he flies at 25k with 8 friends wherever he goes.

Karnak · « **Reply #19 on:** February 05, 2002, 10:24:14 PM »

Nath[BDP],

Every time I've met Mitsu in AH he's been alone. He's also blasted me out of the sky each time as well.

GRUNHERZ · « **Reply #20 on:** February 05, 2002, 10:25:51 PM »

I could get a 15/1 KD in Bf109G6 or 25/1 in FW190A5 just flying smart and always under 15k. These planes are similar to the Ki61, very capable but underused.

Widewing · « **Reply #21 on:** February 06, 2002, 12:46:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by funkedup
I've flown the Spits and the Ki-61 extensively. The Tony is no match for the Spit V if the pilots are equal. Spit V turns better, climbs better, flies faster, etc. Tony has great guns though.

I've spent a good amount of time in the SpitV, and I enjoy it very much. However, it is not faster than the Ki-61 until they get above 12k. Below that, the Tony has the edge. I also don't think that the equal pilot argument holds water either. A smart pilot flying the Ki-61 will not engage in a stallfight with a SpitV. I sure as hell won't. Tonight, I killed another Seafire in the Tony. It was a case of fighting my fight and not his. When the Seafire pilot realized that he could not out-turn me at 250 mph, he tried a hard, tight turn. I simply went right on by, unloaded and extended out. Converting my speed into altitude, the Seafire found me about 3k above him and coming down fast. Now it was his turn to nose over. However, he was too late as I split-s'd right onto his backside at .6k. He tries another hard turn, but I'm not buying. I high yoyo'd right and shot him out of his turn. Had I missed, I would have unloaded and extended yet again. But, I didn't miss and he went back to the tower. No way am I going to play the stallfighting game with any Spitfire or Seafire. That's fighting to their strength.

It's interesting that the SpitIX and Ki-61 carry, essentially, the same armament. What makes the Tony much more effective is the mounting of the cannons above the engine, very near centerline. It's this better concentration of firepower that makes the Ki-61 so lethal. I killed a Lanc with one 2 second burst, literally exploding it from 200 yards, dead astern. He never saw me slide up from underneath.

My regards,

Widewing

Widewing · « **Reply #22 on:** February 06, 2002, 01:01:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
The Ki-61's best tour was Tour 19.

Tour 19:
The Ki-61 has 3696 kills and has been killed 2353 times.

Kills per death: 1.57

There are times when a lot of the good Japanese players fly it. That heavily distorts its K/D, which is easy to do on any unit that has low kill totals.

I have to agree with you. Mitsu and I have 25 of the 66 kills credited to the Ki-61. However, we have only 3 of the 46 deaths attributed to it. So, if you take our numbers away, you find 41 kills and 43 deaths. Not very good. I believe that it will improve as pilots just trying it for the first time learn its strengths and avoid exposing its weaknesses.

Currently, Mitsu has a 7:1 k/d ratio in the Ki-61. I have a 9:1 k/d ratio. I didn't see Mitsu in the main arena tonight, but I suspect that he will improve his ratio by tomorrow.

My regards,

Widewing

Vermillion · « **Reply #23 on:** February 06, 2002, 06:31:08 AM »

LOL! Widewing, you better be careful

Now some of the better pilots will go hunting Ki-61's just hoping that it will be you or Mitsu (and you two fly at very different times) and hoping to ruin the K/D your talking about.

Not that I've run into Mitsu in a while, and I've only killed you in Spit V's, but I find the Ki61 just a tastey snack for just about any of the BnZ planes I fly.

About the only time I die to one is when I get bored and furball while flying a P51/Dora low over an airfield.

Of course, now If I see one I will be compelled to come after it just as a challenge

Sikboy · « **Reply #24 on:** February 06, 2002, 09:02:56 AM »

This is a great thread, and an interesting study, but I don't think you should hold your breath for the Ki-61 to catch on with the dweebs of the world. It seems to me, just from reading this thread mind you, that the reason that WideWing and Mitsu are so proficient in this plane is that they have learned where its peak performance lies. The problem is that this is in the middle. It's not badass at high speeds, and its not Uber at low speeds. You have to have some attention to detail when tailoring your ACM to keep within the goldielocks envelope (not too fast, not too slow, but Juuuuust Riiiiiight). The most popular (and therefore dweeby i guess) Planes seem to max out at one edge or the other. The Hein can't fight at high speeds with an La-7 or at slow speeds with the Spit-5. It seems to fall in-between the cracks.

With that said however, It sounds like an awful lot of fun, and the Tony was the one plane I always wanted to fly in AW, so I'll certainly give it a few flights this camp.

-Sikboy

Widewing · « **Reply #25 on:** February 06, 2002, 10:25:34 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vermillion
LOL! Widewing, you better be careful

Now some of the better pilots will go hunting Ki-61's just hoping that it will be you or Mitsu (and you two fly at very different times) and hoping to ruin the K/D your talking about.

Not that I've run into Mitsu in a while, and I've only killed you in Spit V's, but I find the Ki61 just a tastey snack for just about any of the BnZ planes I fly.

About the only time I die to one is when I get bored and furball while flying a P51/Dora low over an airfield.

Of course, now If I see one I will be compelled to come after it just as a challenge

Well, from what I've seen of Mitsu, anyone out looking for him is probably out looking for a beating.

Geez Verm, I was already of the impression that I was a target already.

Last evening I found myself the center of attraction twice. The first time I was climbing out when a Mustang and two Spits singled me out for attention. When they came down, I was able to dodge their BnZ runs without too much trouble. Oddly, the Mustang began a leisurely climbing turn. I cut him off and shot off his right aileron before the Spits forced me to break away. After dueling with the Spitfires for a few minutes, I saw an opening and ran. Both were Mk.Vs and I had no trouble out-distancing them. Good thing too, I was down to less than 50 rounds of ammo.

Later, I found myself in a similar situation. However, there were at least 10 Bishes to deal with. There wasn't any possibility to run, so I slugged it out getting one and damaging at least two others before my luck ran out.

Like you, if I avoid the furballs, I seldom get pinged. I prefer to hang out high above the ingress and egress route of the aforementioned furball. You can vulch on the guys heading back home, out of ammo, gas or both. I pulled the wings off of a Mossy last night, trying to get a shot at a retiring 109 while diving. I forgot about the weight of those engines out there. You can do this sort of thing in a Spitfire, but not a Mossy. It can't handle those loads.

Finally, I decided to try the C.205. My only other experience with one was back in Tour 24, and was short lived. At that time I was whacked while taking off and never tried the type again. So, I figured, "why not give it another go?"

Well, I like it a lot. It has acceptable speed, climbs reasonably well and handles nicely. All the discussion about its guns being under-modeled is lost on me. I killed a SpitIX with two short squirts. My only dislike is the forward vision. I suspect you'd be better off with a periscope.

By the way, what's your arena handle? I'd like to recognize you when I shoot down your Dora.

Or, likewise, know that it's you who got me.

As always, my best.

Widewing

Vermillion · « **Reply #26 on:** February 06, 2002, 10:51:50 AM »

Your right the 205 is also a very good plane that is quite underestimated in the arena.

My arena handle is "Verm"

Raubvogel · « **Reply #27 on:** February 06, 2002, 11:07:42 AM »

Widewing, I think when you mention people complaining about guns you are thinking of the C202, not the 205. The 205 has decent armament, pretty much identical to the Dora. I like to fly the C205, I just wish it wasn't like flying in a jail cell....very easy to lose cons in the forward cockpit bars.

Fatty · « **Reply #28 on:** February 06, 2002, 11:17:18 AM »

Point of clarification the MGs on the KI-61 aren't bad either. A much closer match to the spitIX loadout than the spitV.

Widewing · « **Reply #29 on:** February 06, 2002, 12:04:46 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vermillion

Your right the 205 is also a very good plane that is quite underestimated in the arena.

My arena handle is "Verm"

Sunday night, I ran across a pair of C.205s jousting with an La-7. I too was flying a Lavochkin, and I waded in. It didn't take me long to understand that the 205 is a dangerous opponent. Being real careful to manage my E, I found it difficult in the extreme to get a good angle on my target. I eventually got him, but I'm convinced that he was distracted trying to cover his buddy, whom he turned towards, giving me my first decent shot. Indeed, with two La-7s now on the lone 205, it still took a lot of coordinated work to get him as well. I'm convinced yet again, that the second pilot screwed up by trying to run rather than use his superior agility to fight back.

Thinking back on that second 205, I believe I would have used my Spitfire defensive tactic for dealing with two or more attackers. I spiral down to the deck (or water as this case was), and fly a series of defensive turns and figure 8s. Being on the deck means that I don't have to worry about what is below me. Now I only have to defend one hemisphere as opposed to all angles. I figure that the 205 turns much better than the Lavochkin. So, using that, and the ever present danger of BnZers flying into the ground or water, the 205 would have significantly increased his chances. Not only just to survive, but to turn the table on his attackers.

By the way, Mitsu upped his Ki-61 score to 28 kills with two deaths. So, he stands at 14 to 1.

My best,

Widewing