Author Topic: Spare the Rod, Spoil the Johnny (Read 909 times)

Thrawn · « **Reply #15 on:** February 08, 2002, 07:16:07 PM »

Here's a generalised answer.

It starts at the very beginning, when your children aren't rational. You let them know they are loved and you will protect them. With that sense of security they start to explore, with confidence.

As they become rational they will start to have questions, you answer them as best you can, let them learn. Don't lie to them, offer your opinion, make sure that they know it's just an opinion, tell them what it's based on. Have, a well thought out, set of rules. Make sure they know the consequence of breaking them. Make sure they know why you have put those rules in place.

After they become adults, hopefully you can tell yourself that you've done the best you could. Their decisions from there on in is there own. If your best wasn't good enough, well you have two options. Feel guilty for the rest of your life, or not.

P.S. Decipline doesn't have to mean, physically assaulting your child. Feel free to rationalise, but if you hit your kid, that's what you are doing. What would you do if a stranger hit your kid. Why would it be okay for you to do it. You are their father or mother, you should suscibe to a better set of standards then you would demand from a stranger.

Pongo · « **Reply #16 on:** February 08, 2002, 09:14:36 PM »

The guy has a weak personality and he needed some adults to guide him to find himself. He had to go to Afganistan to find some apperently.
But what are we talking about here..
One young dweeb in a country of 300 million. The laws of probability would almost insist that one idiot was over there burning the US flag or what ever the hell he was doing.
Why focus on it. Focus on the hundreds of thousands of young teens and young adults in your country well brought up or not that want to go hunt down the murderers that attacked your you...
They are the overwhelming majority I bet.

You guys are crucifying the author of this piece like he really said the things that mr fish attributed to him...He did not.

You say that what Johny did was the equivilent of doning a crucifix. I disagree. It was more like booking a trip to Jones Town. His parents should have had the judgment and strength to be there for him. They did not. Now they seem to be there to try to help him avoid paying the price for his decisions. They should stick with there original plan and let Johny "experiance" the full consequence and result of his decisions..that is the way to let him "grow" isnt it?

Raubvogel · « **Reply #17 on:** February 09, 2002, 03:10:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Thrawn

P.S. Decipline doesn't have to mean, physically assaulting your child. Feel free to rationalise, but if you hit your kid, that's what you are doing. What would you do if a stranger hit your kid. Why would it be okay for you to do it. You are their father or mother, you should suscibe to a better set of standards then you would demand from a stranger.

I love that...."Physically assaulting your child." Give me a break. If I flick you in the back of the head, is that a physical assault? I'm not talking beating the snot out of a kid, I'm talking about a smack on a very well-padded ass. That's half the problem with the world, everyone's turned into a pansy. Can't do toejam without being afraid of hurting someone's feelings, or wounding their inner child.

Toad · « **Reply #18 on:** February 09, 2002, 08:21:54 AM »

OK, Thrawn.. I call.

How many kids YOU got?

mrfish · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2002, 02:04:23 PM »

no kiddin raub. your kids are fine just like everyone else who had 'appropriate' discipline growing up. they arent the fragile mental willows the left paints them as.

as it relates to this article though, i doubt you will have to spell it out for them someday because they will see that becoming a moslem isnt bad but killing people and betraying your country is.

i remember being at one of those wafty new age parenting kid's houses and standing in the kitchen totally embarrassed as he threw an all out hissy tantrum at age 10 because his parents wouldnt let him go somewhere, i forget where now.

everytime the kid didn't get his way he'd fuss and they'd both come running, talking at him and kinda scurrying around him. tons of attention.

you could hear their voices quake as they asked him to reapeat 'calming statements' with them... they were at wits end for sure and i kept thinking damn! my mom would just flip if i was doin that!

i got on my bike and took off think man that family is f&^ked up!

a few spanks when you are really young is all it really takes and after about 5 yrs - you just know better.

you take that moment where they stop spanking you and starting reasoning with you as an acknowledgement of your own mini-maturity - it's like a little right of passage.

given this acknowledgement, most kids rise to the challenge because they love to show how mature they are. well they always try to reason even during the spanking stage but you know what i mean i hope.

if there's no foundation in place you end up some spoiled fit throwing mess that becomes a double-parker some day

Raubvogel · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2002, 03:51:55 PM »

That's the point I was trying to get across mr fish. I'm just not that eloquent of a writer. Must be because of all the beatings I got as a child.

gavor · « **Reply #21 on:** February 10, 2002, 07:14:16 PM »

I got a flicked ear for being mildly bad or a spankin for bein real bad. My dad kept a $*#*ing big stick behind the freezer and hit the table with it if we were out of line(very rare, we had to be out of control). But as a deterrant it worked wonderfully. Nothing quite like psychological parenting.

All the pansy parenting crap is breeding a generation of weak willed babies. The next generation will be Generation Girly-Nancy. My girlfriend works in child-care and sees it all the time. It cracks me up when she tells me about parents trying to reason with their 3 year old like its an adult. You're the parent, YOU make the decisions, not your kid.

Sandman · « **Reply #22 on:** February 10, 2002, 08:22:17 PM »

Spanking does not equal discipline.

Lack of spanking does not equal lack of discipline.

gavor · « **Reply #23 on:** February 10, 2002, 08:40:03 PM »

:-/

That wasn't really the point. I said rarely did it happen. I realised that if I really overstepped the mark there was an established punishment waiting for me. I can't remember actually being spanked but I'm sure I was.

Most of the time I was disciplined in various other ways. My parents never let me overrule them there were strict boundaries for my behaviour. They were always the ones in control and I knew what punishment would be meted out if I deserved one.

Generally my parents were quite leniant about most things, they believed I would learn from experience and that to stop me doing something would only encourage me. If I really went to far though I would cop it, for example, if I was disrespectful. I could get away with crap grades and fighting at school but talking back or lighting a fire were obvious no-no's

.

Anyway, blah blah blah. I think I've said enough about my childhood

.

StSanta · « **Reply #24 on:** February 11, 2002, 07:48:43 AM »

No gabvor, tell us more.

Do you think this is what has caused the fetish for 'big sticks' that people 'slam into the table'?

Not bashing your 'alternative lifestyle' here or anything

Heheheh, couldn't resist.

midnight Target · « **Reply #25 on:** February 11, 2002, 10:17:16 AM »

Quote

Spanking does not equal discipline.

Lack of spanking does not equal lack of discipline.

Spot on Sandman, however there are moments when a shock to the system is required. The best example is a 2 year old that runs into the street. The severity of the situation MUST be conveyed to the toddler....or they might die!

Where I disagree with physical punishment is when it becomes ritualized. "You need to be spanked for not doing your homework Johnny"......dumb!

gavor · « **Reply #26 on:** February 11, 2002, 04:57:12 PM »

I set myself up for that StSanta. On the final note to that story, one night I was particulary rowdy at the table and my dad of course used the stick threat. When that didnt work he hit it on the table. It broke in half and the bottom part bounced off the table and hit him in the head. Still makes me laugh.

Anyway, I agree with Target, it probably sums up my position rather well. I'm not real big on physical punishment but I believe it has its place in some circumstances. (certainly nothing as trivial as not doing your homework).

Parents who, when their 5yo is out of control, use the 'please johnny, dont break any more of mummys good plates' annoy me. A certain amount of reasoning can be utilised, but discipline(not necessarily spanking) is whats really needed.

midnight Target · « **Reply #27 on:** February 11, 2002, 05:27:21 PM »

The biggest mistake I think we all make as parents is - not trying to catch our kids doing the right thing. Believe me, I am as guilty as the rest of the world. When a kid is nice and quiet, or reading a book, parents will use this as their own break time. This is when our kids should be getting the most feedback from us.

I taught Special Ed. for 5 years, and young children have much in common with the retarded:) .
We had a student I'll call Mary. Mary was usually quiet and reserved, but once in a while all that would change. In the middle of the class, for no apparent reason, Mary would begin to scream bloody murder. We tried placing her in "time out" or banning her from the class. These things worked only for a short time. We finally hit on a new tack. Every 5 minutes we would go and thank her for being quiet. This worked like a charm. She was now getting attention for doing the right thing, instead of the attention she got for screaming.

I try to let my kids know when I like what they are doing, even if it is a little thing. But as I said up at the beginning, I have also taken advantage of the quiet times....parenting is a squeak but it is the most rewarding squeak.

gavor · « **Reply #28 on:** February 11, 2002, 05:38:39 PM »

Dats a good idea target, and one that doesnt automatically spring to mind.

I know it's a bad comparison, but thats what we do with dogs. Scold bad behaviour and praise good behaviour.

Raubvogel · « **Reply #29 on:** February 11, 2002, 05:44:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by midnight Target
The biggest mistake I think we all make as parents is - not trying to catch our kids doing the right thing. Believe me, I am as guilty as the rest of the world. When a kid is nice and quiet, or reading a book, parents will use this as their own break time. This is when our kids should be getting the most feedback from us.

I try to let my kids know when I like what they are doing, even if it is a little thing. But as I said up at the beginning, I have also taken advantage of the quiet times....parenting is a squeak but it is the most rewarding squeak.

Yep, you hit the nail on the head there. Kids need positive feedback more than anything. You have to let them know when they do the right thing.