Author Topic: WTG rooks! nice team work!  (Read 466 times)

Offline pimpjoe

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« on: February 10, 2002, 08:24:58 PM »
ok...maybe not.

this is becoming all to familiar lately.

Offline pimpjoe

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2002, 08:26:02 PM »
this is how the roster was.

ok...flame away

Offline Kweassa

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2002, 08:57:45 PM »
Looks like numbers finally caught up yesterday..

 before that I was logged on working on A4-V3 island area.
 and yeah, I noticed too many pilots are wasted on that place
 too. But still I really thought there was a good chance of capture
 in the near time.

 After it was getting quite clear we won't capture it, I transferred
 to south and began fighting there. It really was hell, and seeing
 those 'usual guys' who in their 'usual planes' showing up at
 only those 'usual situations'(I never, ever remember seeing
 'em fighting outside vulch/gangbang situations..)..

 It was enough to remind me why I hated the NDisles, and why
 I hated the frickin' SE corner. Logged off, and went to CT and
 had a good time.

 I honestly don't know why I put up with that sickhole MA anymore.
 They say 'it all has its turns'. They also say 'we're not the only ones
 who get gangbanged'. Those are all true, but intervals between those
 turns are drastic and sh** enough. I sincerely hate the 3-way country
 system now.

Offline Karnak

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2002, 08:58:22 PM »
When I was on, breifly, at 1:00PM PST the Rooks were badly outnumbered.  Maybe what you saw was the legacy of that.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline gavor

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2002, 09:22:53 PM »
over 100 on a side! im lucky to see 100 ppl on the WHOLE SERVER!

Anyway, by the time I got on the situation was about the same, I worked from A1 just tootling around in an M3 trying for a quick cap of those VH. Got some CAS from squaddies etc, had fun even though I had no luck. Made some forays from the CV later, nothing special although we rolled over 3 or 4 bases in an hour. Lost 3 or 4 in the north though :). Maybe its just me or maybe things are different with less ppl, but teamwork isn't too bad when I'm online. I guess only the really interested play at 4am.

Offline Widewing

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2002, 11:50:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
When I was on, breifly, at 1:00PM PST the Rooks were badly outnumbered.  Maybe what you saw was the legacy of that.


What he saw was stupidity compounded by ignorance. Initially, the Rooks were only slightly outnumbered. However, as the evening progressed, more and more people became frustrated at the singleminded pursuit to the north, at cost of the complete loss of the south. More than a few logged off with comments directed at the gangbangers who are usually led by the senior clueless twit.

Tonight I saw the exact pattern re-develop. One knucklehead, who probably never won a tic-tac-toe game in his life, was calling the shots. Like lemmings, the bulk of the Rooks followed his direction. Meanwhile, the Rooks lost two southern airfields, a task force and their southern port to simple neglect. These were captured or destroyed by the Knights, with little more than a dozen aircraft committed. Hell, I defended one field by myself for ten minutes, killing four attackers before I ran out of fuel and ammo. I had to leave at that point. Even when this fight began, there was no more than four players defending at any time.

I don't see myself flying with the Rooks much longer if the majority
continue to follow the creed of centralized mass. It's constantly the same issue. A handful do all of the grunt work, while 40 or more climb all over each other to get at two Spits at an airfield that could have been taken with 15 aircraft. Truly, it defies reason. This reminds me of PeeWee soccer. Every kid races to the ball, abandoning position, and instead of accomplishing the purpose of the game, they just kick each other in the shin.

Maybe it's time to head over to the CT for a change of pace.

If it sounds like I'm being too harsh, well, I won't sugar coat the fact that there's no logic applied to much of what they do.

My regards,

Widewing.
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Karnak

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2002, 12:06:08 AM »
The problem I've had with the MA lately is that I am either competeing with 10 other guys to kill the single enemy or I am fighting alone against 10 enemies.  The same thing from different perspectives and neither is enjoyable.

True, there are more even fights sometimes, but those are rarer and rarer.  When I first subscribed they weren't that rare.  Ganging still happened, but not as much.  Now I feel lucking if I get to participate in a good fight in the MA.

The CT has also been very frusterating for other reasons.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Vortex

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2002, 12:33:34 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing


I don't see myself flying with the Rooks much longer if the majority
continue to follow the creed of centralized mass. It's constantly the same issue. A handful do all of the grunt work, while 40 or more climb all over each other to get at two Spits at an airfield that could have been taken with 15 aircraft. Truly, it defies reason. This reminds me of PeeWee soccer. Every kid races to the ball, abandoning position, and instead of accomplishing the purpose of the game, they just kick each other in the shin.


I'm afraid you'll see this in all three countries. I know its common over in the Knights, and I'm sure Bishop's are no different. Part of it is simply human nature with the majority staying in flocks and herding en masse. Mind you there can often be some great furballs found at the end of those massive migrations. Therein lay the primary draw. To each their own I guess.

Rest assured changing countries won't change the view any though.


Quote


Maybe it's time to head over to the CT for a change of pace.

If it sounds like I'm being too harsh, well, I won't sugar coat the fact that there's no logic applied to much of what they do.


CT can be fun...and it can't be too. But for the most part its the same thing as MA just on a much smaller scale, and with slightly different parameters. The furballers will furball, and the strategists will make and run missions. The surroundings are of course a lot different. Everyone invariably falls back to the play style they're happy with though, just as in MA. It can be a nice change of pace though.

...and as I like to remind folks, everyone is paying the same pennies for this game, so let em fly it in a manner they like. Ask ten people how the game should be played, and you'll get 10 different answers. Best bet imo is hook up with a group or squad that play and think similar to you. That way you've at least got a center point from which to work.

Cause there's no point trying to teach a pig to sing. You're wasting your time, and you'll just annoy the pig.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2002, 12:38:55 AM by Vortex »
--)-Vortex----
The Musketeers, circa 1990

AH In-Game Handle: Vort

Offline pimpjoe

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2002, 01:09:11 AM »
well said widewing

Offline FDutchmn

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2002, 02:43:40 AM »
so what?  we took v3, a4, which was replaced with v6 and a5.  a10, a9, a53, a52 were taken after that.  we did lose p21, a19, a18 but we took back a18.

and?

MA is for fun and nothing more.  so what if we get ganged? or lose the war?  

Just have a good fight whatever it is.  I put up a mission for fun of it, don't let winning the war be everything :)

Offline MANDOBLE

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2002, 03:59:34 AM »
Indeed, WTG to ROOOOOKLAND. Most of the time outnumbered, most of the time gambanged, most of the time without exceeding resources to set up pupolated missions, most of the time with unclear organization, rarely winning a reset, but, in any case, the only country able to have a global K/D > 1.0 ;)

Tour 24 K/D:
Rooks: 136675/124783 1.09
Knights: 148769/149742 0.99
Bishops: 130596/141509 0.92

Tour 25 K/D:
Rooks: 27205/24697 1.10
Knights: 29036/29691 0.97
Bishops: 26318/28173 0.93

Surviving here is not easy, but we are giving them a bloody run for their money :D

Offline Widewing

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2002, 09:06:06 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Vortex


CT can be fun...and it can't be too. But for the most part its the same thing as MA just on a much smaller scale, and with slightly different parameters. The furballers will furball, and the strategists will make and run missions. The surroundings are of course a lot different. Everyone invariably falls back to the play style they're happy with though, just as in MA. It can be a nice change of pace though.

...and as I like to remind folks, everyone is paying the same pennies for this game, so let em fly it in a manner they like. Ask ten people how the game should be played, and you'll get 10 different answers. Best bet imo is hook up with a group or squad that play and think similar to you. That way you've at least got a center point from which to work.

Cause there's no point trying to teach a pig to sing. You're wasting your time, and you'll just annoy the pig.
 


I understand your points. However, therein is the frustration. I've been wargaming since 1967. During my military service, I took great pride in waxing War College grads simply because of a greater depth of understanding of the relationship between goals and methodology. What I see here is a dogpack mentality, with no greater comprehension of methodology than the dogs display. No, I don't expect a change as long as players prefer to be drones.

The fact remains, however, that even with the limited resources available, it is not a major challenge to defeat a disorganized enemy. I could write a volume on what's wrong and how to fix it. I could write a detailed methodology describing exactly how this can be accomplished. Yet, I have no motivation to do so. simply because it would largely fall upon deaf ears. I also realize that this situation bothers me because I'm the type who would want to create organization where chaos exists. That may not be possible, but it can be managed. Here's my solution: Attrition.

Currently, there is no attrition whatsoever. Someone gets shot down and they return minutes later in the same aircraft. This puts the numerically smaller force at a serious disadvantage. So, what can be done about that?

Simple, really. If you get shot down, you cannot return with the same aircraft for that calendar day. You must select a different aircraft. Get whacked ten times in high performance aircraft, and you will find yourself choosing from what remains. This will quickly limit the amount of "uber" fighters in the main arena. It will also motivate individuals as well as whole forces, to consider how they spend their resources. Keep the general structure of the perk system in place as well, although it may require some adjustment. Misuse those resources and your team faces the possibility of fighting off attacks using Hurricanes instead of Spitfires and La-7s.

Lose your SpitIX, and you're forced into the SpitV if you wish to continue flying Spitfires. And so on.

To make this work on a team scale, each team should be allocated a limited number of aircraft, reset every six hours. This would force the teams to husband resources and would self-enforcing to an extent. This should be a tier system that would allow for unlimited access to lesser performing aircraft.

The gangbangers can still do their thing, albeit with inferior aircraft should they so desire to continue. Moreover, this would cause players and their chosen leaders to reconsider mindless goals that will only serve to cause a faster reset. I also have a preliminary concept of a leadership structure that would allow any player his or her chance to run the show with rewards for getting it right and penalties for screwing the pooch. I'll post it after I work out the details further. I would also greatly enhance the perk rewards for kills scored as part of an organized mission. Furthermore, you can only rise in the command structure through participation in organized missions.

I'll post more as I work out details.

My regards,

Widewing
My regards,

Widewing

YGBSM. Retired Member of Aces High Trainer Corps, Past President of the DFC, retired from flying as Tredlite.

Offline Hortlund

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2002, 09:19:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Widewing

To make this work on a team scale, each team should be allocated a limited number of aircraft, reset every six hours. This would force the teams to husband resources and would self-enforcing to an extent. This should be a tier system that would allow for unlimited access to lesser performing aircraft.


And gee what fun we would have to fly the 202's after the japanese players has used up the country quota on all other fighters. The idea is a good one, but the quotas needs to be personal instead of team quotas. And perhaps 3 of each sort?

Most MA people would not care enough about their fellow teammates to bother. Some new moron would simply use up the good fighter quota.

Offline Apache

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2002, 09:38:44 AM »
Widewing,

From a drone point of view.

I'm in a squad that is and has been a pure dogfighting squad from wayback. We are not in to arena strategy for strategies sake.

All the BK's are in high stress, professional fields. Speaking for myself, I use the AH MA to kickup my adrenaline. To get angry about being shot down and aggressively do something about it. To compete with myself and my friends and not worry about disappointing someone or pissin' someone off. To kick, scream and yell, have a knee slappin' good time without looking over my shoulder. Things I don't do in the real world.

I supervise subordinates everyday. I have for the past 10 years of my career. I'm certainly not going to "pay" to have someone tell me what to do in my leisure time. It goes against my grain I guess.

I'm also not an advocate of limiting aircraft as your attrition idea suggests, especially not when we pay to fly them. Not in the MA at least. If there were an arena setup where people understood they may lose an aircraft, then thats all well and good, but there should be a choice IMHO.

I have no problem with folks wanting to "win the war". I them for thier efforts. For those of use who choose to ignore the war, but fight the battles, should be given the same respect.

Offline Ripsnort

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WTG rooks! nice team work!
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2002, 09:46:08 AM »
Well said Apache!  Now if you'll just get your point across to a specific Team mate to live and let live instead of trying to change the game to his standards, we'd all be one happy family! :)