Author Topic: So I want Terrible Frank (Ki-84). (Read 2613 times)

DblTrubl · « **Reply #15 on:** February 13, 2002, 11:15:06 PM »

Frankenstein gets my vote too. I agree with Funked...Shoki would be a very interesting ride, but if I had to choose, I'd take Frankie. I also want the Ki-100 and J2M3. A Ki-43 would be nice too. Hell, we just need more Japanese planes in general. Lotsa gaps in their planeset.

AmRaaM · « **Reply #16 on:** February 13, 2002, 11:32:42 PM »

FRANKENDWEEB ! I can just hear TAC now .... lol

whels · « **Reply #17 on:** February 14, 2002, 10:03:06 AM »

Ki84 = La7 pilots worst nitemare

whels

Quote

Originally posted by BUG_EAF322
i see we missing planes for the USairforce

P38 D-J

what plane is this ki-84?

a mustang with turnradius ala zero and superguns ?

o yeah forgot to mention very tough too ?

do we need that?

i like to see that white zero (early version) and
the oscar

if so than add the wildcat. so we can make a cool midway scenario.

i really don't know what the ki-84 would be like, but if it is like above hell i don't wanna see it.

i hope the ki- 84 is just fast something the japanese plane set is missing.

BUG322
=Twin Engined Devils=

Kweassa · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2002, 04:37:46 AM »

Yes. There are these sort of planes everybody wants, but nobody knows
for sure what it is like. In the contrary examples of 109s and Spits, there
are many pilot's anecdotes, documentations, footage, and huge popular
"image" conceived within the hearts of the masses that everybody tends
to agree in a certain way. "Yes, 109s would be agile, climb awesome but
bad at roll" "Yup, Spitfires would outturn 109s, but the 109s would climb
better and be at a BnZ advantage.." etc etc.

But two planes still escape from these sort of speculations and consensus
that many people agree on: The Spitfire MkXIV and Ki-84 Hayate.

As Bug_EAF322 asked: What exactly are these planes like?

The only known factor people seem to agree on seems that they are fast
planes. The issue of maneuverability, which people fear the most, are so
very different in so many references that all that people have is just some
sort of wild imagination and fear of it. There is always a certain tendency
in fighters, a sort of a 'golden rule' that if a plane is slow, it turns good, and
if a plane turns bad, it is at least fast(generally that is).

I think people fear that if Ki-84s or Spit14s are introduced, it might become
a plane that catches most of the 'fast' planes, and also turns so well that
flying any other sort of plane might become meaningless.

So, what exactly is the Ki-84 like?

The reference on armament seems that it'd become one of the most
formidably armed planes in AH. The speed recorded also suggests
that it might catch up with most of the AH planes with relative ease.

...

Then, how will it maneuver? Like a Zero? Like a Spit? Or maybe this is
over rated?? It'd turn just about like a Yak-9U? Or maybe about 109G-2s?

Once, on a thread about Spit14, I was very surprised to see Karnak
estimate the Spit14 would turn about as good as AH Yak-9U. It sort
of shattered my conception and worries that Spit14 will be the ultimate
'dweeb machine

(sorry)' that out runs, out turns and out guns
most everything else in AH planeset.

So..... what are your estimates, guys?

Vermillion · « **Reply #19 on:** February 15, 2002, 10:07:46 AM »

Well.... (note the performance data is scarfed from Buaghers page)

The speed recorded post war with a captured Ki-84 in Pennsylvania with US 100 octane fuel, with all wartime equipment (minus ammo), was almost 425 mph at around 20k.

However the "consensus" (ie Japanese wartime fuel) says that max speed is 392 at 20k. I will have to check around to see what its Sea Level max speed is.

It climbs well reaching an altitude of 16,405 feet in 5 minutes 54 seconds. An altitude of 26,240 feet could be attained in 11 minutes 40 seconds.

Weights: 5864 pounds empty, 7955 pounds loaded. And it has a wing area of 226.04 square feet. Compare that to other planes in AH, and you should see that it will turn very well, and that it will accelerate very well.

Armament: Two fuselage mounted 12.7-mm Type 1 (Ho-103) machine guns and two wing-mounted 20-mm Ho-5 cannon (Ki-84-Ia). Two fuselage-mounted 20-mm Ho-5 cannon and two wing-mounted 20-mm Ho-5 cannon (Ki-84-Ib). Two fuselage-mounted 20-mm Ho-5 cannon and two wing-mounted 30-mm Ho-105 cannon (Ki-84-Ic). Even the standard armament is very formidable, comparable to a Spits armaments. With the 4 x Ho-5 cannons, it will be a beast of a killer surpassing the N1K2, any of the Fw190's, but being slightly behind the F4U-1C and Hurricane IIC. The Japanese 30mm's will be effectively useless, and should be avoided, unless your hunting slow moving buffs.

I guess at a quick glance, the Ki-84 will be similar to a Yak-9U (slightly slower, but better turning), but with much better guns and alot more ammo. In WB's it was a great ride.

Edit: One final note. This plane will make the Niki dweebs look minor in comparison, imo. Look to see a new "Frankenstein Scourge" when this plane is introduced.

Widewing · « **Reply #20 on:** February 15, 2002, 11:04:06 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Vermillion

Edit: One final note. This plane will make the Niki dweebs look minor in comparison, imo. Look to see a new "Frankenstein Scourge" when this plane is introduced.

Count upon me to be one of the first Frankenstein Dweebs. I like the N1K2-J, but I prefer the Ki-61 for various reasons. Since I fly all of the Japanese fighters, the Ki-84 would be especially welcome. Currently, my K/D ratio in Japanese aircraft is 40/15, or 2.67:1 (well over 3:1 in the Ki-61). I would expect that to improve markedly with the Hayate added to the planeset.

My regards,

Widewing

Vortex · « **Reply #21 on:** February 15, 2002, 12:03:05 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak

Sachs,

Germany actually has 4. Mitsu left out the Bf109G-10 and Fw190D-9 which are also 2nd half 1944 super birds.

Remove the Ta and you got it. G10 and D9 will eat a Ta's lunch everytime...as will every other E-fighter.

*brought to you by the committee to un-perk the Ta-152*

;->

Vortex · « **Reply #22 on:** February 15, 2002, 12:34:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Kweassa

Once, on a thread about Spit14, I was very surprised to see Karnak
estimate the Spit14 would turn about as good as AH Yak-9U. It sort
of shattered my conception and worries that Spit14 will be the ultimate
'dweeb machine (sorry)' that out runs, out turns and out guns
most everything else in AH planeset.

So..... what are your estimates, guys?

The RAF did some comparissons between the Spit IX and Spit XIV. These are partially documented in "Late Marque Spitfire Aces 1942-1945." Here's brief snippets of their test conclusions...

Weight: Spit XIV weighed in at 8400lbs compared to IX's 7480lbs

Range & Endurance: Range was about the same but Endurance of the XIV was slightly less (it burnt fuel at 1 1/4 the rate of the IX, but was faster).

Speed: 30 to 35mph faster at most alts. The exception being 15,000ft and 25,000 to 32,000 where the two were quite even.

Climb: XIV had superior ROC at all alts and slightly better zoom climb at all alts.

Dive: XIV pulled away from IX in dive test

Turning Circle: As quoted from the text..."The turning circles of both aircraft are identical."

Rate of Roll: Same

Search View & Rear View: Similar, although their is mention that the slightly longer nose of the XIV impedes that view a bit in comparisson.

Conclusions: Well, pretty obvious. They conclude that in every respect the XIV is the better plane.

Certainly the XIV would be a hot ride. You'd need some perks in place for this one to be sure, probably along the lines of the Tempest. Basically we'd have a plane that handles like a Spit IX and packing the speed of a Typhoon (roughly)...and dives better than a Spit too (Ouch!). That's a pretty nasty combination.

Karnak · « **Reply #23 on:** February 15, 2002, 02:55:34 PM »

Vortex,

The Spit XIV has nothing like the speed of the Tiffie.

Depending on the source the Spit XIV does either 357mph or 363mph at sea level. That is slower than quite a few freebie aircraft in AH. Perked at the level of the Tempest the Spit XIV would be nigh useless. It'd get gangbanged (happens to all perk planes) and couldn't get away.

The Spit XIV would clearly need to be perked, but I'd say more in the 15 to 30 point range. This is an aircraft that was more common (957 built) and earlier (entered squadron service on Jan. 2, 1944) than either the Tempest of Fw190D-9.

The Ki-84 may end up having to be perked at something like F4U-1C levels simply to control it, but I think that it should be introduced as a freebie and see if that is really required before jumping in and perking it.

I reiterate that I would like to see the "perk labels" go away. Let people have fun with their perk points by allowing them to use the aircraft without being gangbanged. The Ta152H-1 should be labeled "190" not "152" and the F4U-4 should be labeled "F4U" not "F4U4".

Vortex · « **Reply #24 on:** February 15, 2002, 04:32:44 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
Vortex,

The Spit XIV has nothing like the speed of the Tiffie.

Depending on the source the Spit XIV does either 357mph or 363mph at sea level. That is slower than quite a few freebie aircraft in AH. Perked at the level of the Tempest the Spit XIV would be nigh useless. It'd get gangbanged (happens to all perk planes) and couldn't get away.

*snip*

I reiterate that I would like to see the "perk labels" go away. Let people have fun with their perk points by allowing them to use the aircraft without being gangbanged. The Ta152H-1 should be labeled "190" not "152" and the F4U-4 should be labeled "F4U" not "F4U4".

Indeed, its not faster than the Typhoon, but its close (hence "roughly"). We're looking at 360-365 on the deck for the XIV and 370-375 for the Typh. So pretty close. At the mid-teens I'd wager the XIV is as fast if not faster, as well as 25k+. Even at the more conservative speeds it would have ample umph to run down pretty much everything short of the 51D, D9, La7, Typh, and G10. That's pretty quick when you get right down to it. Throw into the equation a climb rate that would be in the top 3 and a good excelleration and I'd think one would have a good chance of dictating when and where you fought.

I guess a big part of the "perked at the level of a Tempest" is when one compares it to the Ta 152. The XIV would eat this thing alive in every category below 30k. I just don't see how one could perk it at or below that level.

That having been said I quite like your suggestion about removing the unique identifiers for things like the F4U4 and Ta 152. The labels themselves are sufficient enough that perk points are something I have absolutely no use for. The few planes I would fly with the perks points I refuse to due to the fact that you attract every dweeb ride within a 10 sector radius once they see your icon.

Hristo · « **Reply #25 on:** February 16, 2002, 03:20:25 AM »

Are KI 84 cannons different than those of the Niki ?

Ki 84 is the only non LW plane I'd like to fly. I remember once in one of WB arenas I was flying 109s and 190s, against P51s and F4Us. Pretty evenly matched. Then I tried the Ki 84 and could forget about any SA or safe flying. The Ki got me kill after kill, all low on the deck. As well as 'dweeb plane' remarks on open channel.

In WB H2H, it turned somewhere between Spit IX and Spit XIV.

Vermillion · « **Reply #26 on:** February 16, 2002, 06:29:13 AM »

Yes Hristo the Ki-84 cannons are different from the N1K2.

The N1K2, a Navy fighter, has the Type 99 model cannon.

The Ki-84, an army fighter, has the HO-5 cannon. The Ki-61 already in AH also has the HO-5 cannon, which is one of the more effective cannons in the game.

Mitsu · « **Reply #27 on:** March 22, 2002, 04:16:07 AM »

Ok guys, time to release Ki-84! (or Ki-61-II!)

I can't escort this new fast bomber well in Ki-61-I-KAIc!!!

-Mitsu

oboe · « **Reply #28 on:** March 22, 2002, 07:31:24 AM »

A flight of Ki.67s escorted by Ki.84s! Now that would be one tough strike force to deal with.

It woudl also look awesome!:D

whels · « **Reply #29 on:** March 22, 2002, 08:07:46 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Karnak
I'd love the Ki-84-Ia Hayate to be added to AH. 3,500 of them were built, so there can't be any "It wasn't produced in enough numbers" whining like there is about the N1K2-J.

Sachs,

Germany actually has 4. Mitsu left out the Bf109G-10 and Fw190D-9 which are also 2nd half 1944 super birds.

hehe u think the UFO whines are bad about teh niki, u havent seen nothin yet. Ki84 will put them all to shame. Ki84 will
be the most feared plane under 15k, even the la7 pilots
will quake in thier boot.

whels