Author Topic: Flying manners (Read 2789 times)

batdog · « **Reply #75 on:** February 21, 2002, 08:06:15 AM »

Baaa...your all tards . I hope my 38 pieces fall on you all.

xBAT

MadBirdCZ · « **Reply #76 on:** February 21, 2002, 08:06:27 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MadBirdCZ

Those 1 ping BOOM he goes kills are pilot kills (IMHO).

Of course the fuel detonation could be also the cause but almost all latewar planes had tanks quite well protected agains fire and detonation so I would not bet on this one too much.
And the ordonance can make pretty nice boom too (if you have any and if its hit the right way but IMHO its also not very usual).

Wrom what I have seen at guncameras so far there always was a lot of rubble flying all around, lots of smoke, some flames, small scale detonations (ammunition) but almost no BIG BANGs...

Hmm... Oh well...

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #77 on:** February 21, 2002, 08:09:04 AM »

I've also noted the number of 190 killed by you and the number of times killed by 190 and for each version. DMF, U are the funny one, and extremely funny ROFLOL. Cmon, next time give us leasons about 109G2, we'll be pleased to heard the word of a so experienced G2 master.

uh! forgot, a spit at 30k is untouchable by a D9 and hardly touchable by a Ta, so what? spit is very surveiable???

Widewing · « **Reply #78 on:** February 21, 2002, 08:37:40 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Gremlin
Gotta come back and eat some words.

On reflection any plane that causes your plane to vapourise with 1 ping has gotta be looked at seriously, I refer to the Yak9T and the LA7. I dont care what caliber the ammo is even a 37mm shell should not vapourise your plane with one hit, yeah it may well break your plane in two, remove a wing but not explode. Has anyone seen guncam footage of a plane being vapourised by 1 ping? As for the LA7 now theres a plane that needs perking if I ever saw one.

Get this, last night I am cruisin around in my pony at c20k. I spot an f6f at c12-13k. I decide to amke a couple of quick passes. I spot an la7 at about 15k comin in. I'm not too worried, just make this 1 pass and do a nice gentle zoom back towards 20k. If the la7 wants to fight me up there well it will be my pleasure to oblige. I get back up to 20k to find this la7 closin in fast.Try to outclimb it, I think, start pulling away with this thing spraying at me from 800 yds, i get out to 1k thinking i'm clear, 1 lucky spray and pray ping later and im back in the tower!!!

IMHO that is BS. LA7 seems far more uber than a tempest imho. So unperk the tempest and perk the la7!! I'm trying not to do the "It kills me so it should be perked" line. I just hate those friggin laser cannons:)

~~Gremlin.~~

I got pinged by an La-7 last evening after being dinged in the elevator during a furball. With that, I could not turn well enough to defeat the Lavochkin. That, however, is the rare exception, not the rule. At 20k the La-7 is not "uber" and can be out-flown in the Mustang with little difficulty. Your mistake was not hauling around and killing it forthwith. Had you simply unloaded and engaged WEP, you would have extended away without drama. I never run from Lavochkins. I just reverse and kill 'em. Seriously, unless you get vulched unaware, La-7s are less of a threat than the majority of the planeset. While there are some good sticks in the La-7, a considerable number are newbies and/or dweebs, ripe for picking.

Fly the La-7 for a while, learn its strengths and weaknesses. I'm 7 and 3 flying it, and this gained me insight into how to deal with them. Simply stated, dodge BnZ runs until they get frustrated and decide to turn with you, then break them down to a stall and kill 'em. Looking at your stats, I don't see a single type that you fly on a regular basis, that can't defeat the La-7 with little trouble,
provided you don't fight to their strengths. In other words, avoid the vertical Rope-A-Dope, get the fight down to the deck and eat 'em alive, or at least force them to high-tail it for their lives. I'm 15/4 against the La-7, and I generally fly the least "uber" fighters in the planeset (I like the challenge).

My regards,

Widewing

thrila · « **Reply #79 on:** February 21, 2002, 08:44:25 AM »

Bah stats mean nothing. All you people using stats as "evidence" are dweebs.

Mandoble is pretty dweeby too, so's the 190D. Although the 190D is not as dweeby as the la7, but more so than the P51D:D

Tour 24 stats for my tiffy v 190D 9:1........now i'm a stat dweeb, although i was pretty dweeby to begin with anyway:)

Shane · « **Reply #80 on:** February 21, 2002, 08:51:20 AM »

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Originally posted by MANDOBLE
DMF, I stop looking for at tour 14, just bored of seing spit kills. As I suspected by your comments, and as I confirmed with the stats, your experience with ANY 190 is N U L L, Z E R O, N O N E. No matter to reply to your post. If you want, re-read my previous one cause the reply would be the same word by word.

what's so hard about the a8?

Tour 25 stats in MA in one... 12 kills 1 death.

CT tour 2 in D9 (which i found to be a pretty sweet and forgiving ride) 26 kills for 15 deaths.

I have to agree the D9 isn't hard to *fly*, only hard to hit anything with them damn guns and poor ballistics.

i think i'll fly the d9 in MA for a bit and see how it goes, and I'm a total doofus in LW rides.

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #81 on:** February 21, 2002, 08:57:07 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
I've also noted the number of 190 killed by you and the number of times killed by 190 and for each version. DMF, U are the funny one, and extremely funny ROFLOL. Cmon, next time give us leasons about 109G2, we'll be pleased to heard the word of a so experienced G2 master.

[/B]

Then you'd notice that I have no problems killing 190s, which is really something when you consider that they are the ones who control the fight, not me. In most cases, it means I managed to sucker them into fighting my kind of fight. They can enter and exit the fight at will... if I can force a mistake that provides me with a snapshot opportunity, or if I can get them to turn with me, then they're going to die. In most cases, I simply avoid them.

Of course I won't "give lessons" on the 109G2... I have very little experience in any of the 109s except for the G10. I don't recall "giving lessons" on the 190 either beyond explaining their basic differences and how they fit into the overall plane set. You're right that everyone here is laughing, but they're laughing at you, not with you.

If you'd like, I'll have Nath come here and give his thoughts on the 190s in AH. My guess is that his observations will be more refined but basically similar.

Quote

uh! forgot, a spit at 30k is untouchable by a D9 and hardly touchable by a Ta, so what? spit is very surveiable???

As I don't even know the last time I passed 20k let alone 30k, I'll take your word for it. As 90% of the fights in AH take place below 30k, it also has little bearing on the statements I've made about survivability. If you happen to be flying at 30k encountering orbital Spits, that does explain a lot.

Just for the heck of it, I went to H2H earlier today and grabbed a Dora to dogfight the Spits, 109s, and F4Us that were there. The result was that I manged no less than six kills in every flight while mixing it up with "better" planes. I could manage a turn or two with Spits before bugging out and extending to 2k away. In no case were they able to follow, and I would simply reverse and repeat until I achieved a guns solution.

Easy pickings. Had I desired, I could have flown more conservatively and never died. It's not like any of the other planes would have caught me unless I allowed them to.

Yep, the Dora sure is a hard plane to fly.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #82 on:** February 21, 2002, 09:01:31 AM »

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Originally posted by Shane
what's so hard about the a8?

It's got a medicore top speed and turnrate relative to other arena planes. It also lacks the ability to truly control a fight like Doras, P-51s, 109G10s, or La-7s can do thanks to their speed.

I love the guns though.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Apar · « **Reply #83 on:** February 21, 2002, 10:18:08 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Shane:
i think i'll fly the d9 in MA for a bit and see how it goes, and I'm a total doofus in LW rides.

Time for me to grab a P51D,

Apar · « **Reply #84 on:** February 21, 2002, 10:43:48 AM »

Now which planes are hard to fly than in AH?

AFAIK there are no planes in AH that are hard to fly but there are planes that are hard to FIGHT in (E-fight, low-speed dogfight, stall fight, you name it...) based on their specific ACM capabilities.
All planes have their advantages and disadvanteges. I know one thing for sure (having flown the various 190's long enough) it is not easy to slow speed dogfight or stall fight in them. Main advantage of the 190's is roll rate , a5 to some extent turn rate, dora high speed maneuverability. 190's tend to snap roll on low speed (dora too) which requires allot of control to prevent it.
I switched from 109 flying (all of em) to 190's. 109's are much more suitable for stall fights and have much better low speed handling, but a poorer roll rate.
I try pushing the 190's to its low speed limits many times (and i died allot in the progress, but I also learned allot and surprised a couple in the MA), but there are many planes in AH that have much better low speed handling than 190's (like P51, P38, P47, Spit's, niki's, la7, KI61, yak, la5, f6f, zero, 109), especially the planes that can deploy flaps above 200mph (which the 190's can't)
Stating that the Dora is easy to fly, yes I agree, but that goes for 99% of the planes in AH, it doesn't say anything on whether it is easy to fight in it and in what sort of fight.
I do agree with the fact that the survivability in the Dora is high, if flown high speed, or if in a 1v1 break off in time. But that goes also for many other fast planes (like the P51, P47, P38, la7, yak, tempest, tiffy). It all depends on how people fly their plane with the limits of that plane. You can B&Z forever without taking any risc in many planes.

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #85 on:** February 21, 2002, 11:28:52 AM »

Apar, it seems you have a clear idea of what fighting in a plane is

I insist, we dont fly airliners here. Start to "dance" in your D9 and you will find that any Spit is much faster, keep D9 as an airliner and you will find that it would be a fast transport plane.

Icons and radar detroy the concept of boom&zoom that is based on surprise attacks and flee as fast as possible.

Here, top speed may be useful to flee or to pursue an enemy, but not to fight it. Acceleration is the key factor. La7 top speed doesnt convert it in the killer it actually is, it is only its acceleration, specially acceleration from stall to corner speeds. You want to have excelent acceleration or very good E retention, while top speed is secondary. These are the primary factors for a dogfighter, top speed would be a primary factor for interceptors. An our MA is a 100% dogfighter environment.

DMF, you simply cant appreciate real differences between 190 fighting them in a spit, you will notice that D9 is faster, nothing more, nothing less. Perhaps you may notice differences fighting against Ki61 or N1KJ, but any 190 is just a flying stone for your spit.

Shane · « **Reply #86 on:** February 21, 2002, 11:45:59 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by MANDOBLE
Apar, it seems you have a clear idea of what fighting in a plane is

Icons and radar detroy the concept of boom&zoom that is based on surprise attacks and flee as fast as possible.

You want to have excelent acceleration or very good E retention, while top speed is secondary. These are the primary factors for a dogfighter, top speed would be a primary factor for interceptors. An our MA is a 100% dogfighter environment.

i think you're simply using the wrong tactics in conjunction with looking in the wrong place for the kind of fight you apparently want.

i flew a d9 for 4 sorties, got 11 kills, and i fly stupid without a care for rtb. i took out 2 buffs, a few FW's who didn't know how to *fight* against another fw (even when i had two other fw's on me at the same time), took out a 38 using e-tactics, cleared a few 6's in some smallish fur. i even managed a bounce near an enemy base.

if i had flown more conservatively, i might have had only 1 death, but probably a few less kills, still 7:1 k/d wouldn't be too bad, would it?

the hardest thing about the fw's or any lw plane for that matter is gunnery, but that can improve with enough practice and taking better % shots (but with the fw ammo load, spraying is an option at times, too).

*and* at no time did i spin out, even when i stalled a few times vs the 38. the d9 is pretty forgiving with the exception of the tendancy to want to snaproll around 200 ias when you're trying to pull too hard for that shot - and that can be lessened with more time in seat to get used to the proper angles and timings to use.

just sayin'

Apar · « **Reply #87 on:** February 21, 2002, 12:04:47 PM »

Doesn't mean much Shane. Dunno who the pilots on the other end were.
Let me tell you that against a good P51 pilot (like yourself) you wouldn't pull a stall fight in the Dora (190a5 maybe, I did it a couple of times at 10k against you while you were in a P51D,

), neither against TAC, Kappa in their P38, neither against a yak, maybe against a la7. Try knife edge fighting a good P47 pilot in the Dora, it will be an eye opener.

Fly it for a whole tour against allot of pilots in the MA (no safe 25k+ B&Z, but at -15k)

Dead Man Flying · « **Reply #88 on:** February 21, 2002, 12:56:19 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Apar
Now which planes are hard to fly than in AH?

You make a good point, Apar, and it's well stated. To answer your original question, I consider a plane harder to fly in AH when it possesses fewer relative strengths than it does relative weaknesses compared to other planes. It is possible at some point to encounter a plane that does everything yours does, only better. I imagine we'll see more of this with the new 1.09 planes. The Hurricane I with .303s probably won't climb better, roll better, accelerate better, have a better top speed, retain E more efficiently, etc. vs. the Hurricane IIC. I'd also suspect that the turnrates on both would be roughly equal. Clearly the four 20mm Hispanos on the IIC give it monstrous firepower compared to a set of .303s.

In that context, the Hurricane I would be a more difficult plane to fly. Or more appropriately, a more difficult plane in which to kill things than a Hurricane IIC, as the later model Hurricane performs as well or better than it does in just about every category.

By this criteria I consider the Dora easy relative to the A8 because it enjoys a number of key advantages including substantially higher top end speed and more stable handling. It can control fights whereas the A8 cannot (at least for long). If my virtual life depended on it, I'd choose the Dora over the A8 for its superior survivability.

-- Todd/Leviathn

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #89 on:** February 21, 2002, 01:06:35 PM »

While you are running away or while you are traveling at mach 2 you ARE "N O T" FIGHTING. Is that so difficult to understand????

In any case I insist, you have not experience flying them or flying against them to say a single word about 190s except that u outurns any of them with your SpitV and any of them are faster than your SpitV, Shane has even less. And a "laboratory" environment like H2H is not MA.

Perhaps this is new to you, but top speed is not a factor to be able to disengange and, of course, is not a factor to decide whether to engange or not. Top speed dictates very little if u compare it with acceleration and altitude.