Author Topic: HTC fix the GV modeling  (Read 878 times)

Offline Naudet

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« on: February 21, 2002, 05:46:30 AM »
As it is now its a pure joke.

How can GVs be nearly undestroyable and made of paper at the same time?

Whenever i am in a GV i get killed or lose an important part with the very 1st pings.
No matter if 75mm or 0.5 cals.
If i drive the stupid GV i will die, to anyone that gets close enough to bring in a few pings.
Also against other GVs i am not playing with the same cards.
Today i fought against Fariz at long distance. We both in PZRs. If he hit me 2 times, i go BOOM. If i hit him 5 times nothing, or he is just trailing smoke.
That cant be true, how can the same guns, used by different players lead to so different results?
Btw Fariz was alone neutralizing sometimes 3 of our GVs at the same time.
I think HTC must really look into the GV modeling. I dont think Fariz did anything wrong, its just the bad GV modeling.

Offline Wilbus

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2002, 05:47:48 AM »
Yup, specially the 50 cal which kills tanks HO.
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline TheOxman

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2002, 10:44:25 AM »
I have had the same incounters with GV's. Ex: In a Panzer and took 5 round to kill a M-3. I tried HE and AP rounds. No way even for a sim that's correct. One 88mm round would completely destroy and armor car or half track.( Dont belive me?  read the book "Death Traps") Also i dont see a differance with the Ap and HE, both, seem to me , does same amout of damage when fired at a hanger, take quit a few rounds more than need IMHO. The only true way to kill a Tiger tank was to shoot him directly in the arss point blank. Even the Sherman was no match for Tigers. Ture tankers or anyone with a hobbie for WWI and WWII tanks would agree. Of course this is a Flying sim  NOT a Tank sim, but some updating is needed to the GV's

Offline TheOxman

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2002, 10:56:22 AM »
I have had the same incounters with GV's. Ex: In a Panzer and took 5 round to kill a M-3. I tried HE and AP rounds. No way even for a sim that's correct. One 88mm round would completely destroy and armor car or half track.( Dont belive me?  read the book "Death Traps") Also i dont see a differance with the Ap and HE, both, seem to me , does same amout of damage when fired at a hanger, take quit a few rounds more than need IMHO. The only true way to kill a Tiger tank was to shoot him directly in the arss point blank. Even the Sherman was no match for Tigers. Ture tankers or anyone with a hobbie for WWI and WWII tanks would agree. Of course this is a Flying sim  NOT a Tank sim, but some updating is needed to the GV's

Offline Hooligan

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2002, 11:17:53 AM »
Ox:

There are no tigers in this game.  What are you talking about?

Hooligan

Offline TheOxman

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2002, 11:20:27 AM »
sorry i meant the German panzer tank.

Offline Sikboy

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2002, 02:44:36 PM »
How about a "Please" in here somewhere?
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline Raubvogel

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2002, 02:54:44 PM »
Please go away if you have nothing to contribute.

How's that? :)

Offline Sikboy

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2002, 03:04:30 PM »
ROFL touche.
How's this for contribution:
Perhaps you would stand a better chance of getting HTC's attention if you were to respectfully request and investigation into what you perceive to be a problem.

I only say this because by and large I agree that the GV's are a bit suspect at this time. I don't have any real evidence of this, but I've started to take a look at it. (Im more concerned with the anti Tank .50's myself)

Anyhow, since I started to work on the problem, it made me sad that someone else came in here and put forth what I felt was a poor argument, laden with what appeared to me to be DEMANDS and not requests. Evidence to support an AFU GV model was also suspect. 5 rounds don't kill, but 2 rounds do? What are the Variables? Where were the hits? What Ranges? ect.

I would hate to see this topic get struck down because of poor argumentation and obtuse syntax.

Just my contribution

-Sikboy
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline MrLars

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2002, 03:45:06 PM »
I truly think there has been enough "squeaking" about the GV's damage model and armament effectiveness for HTC to take notice. They'll get it fixed, when is the only question...and that's one answer you'll have to wait for since HTC doesn't telegraph their bug, DM or ammo fixes untill they are released. My suggestion is to sit back and have fun with what you can while HTC's hard at work doing that voodoo that they do so well :D

Offline hazed-

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2002, 04:06:19 PM »
why dont HTC make the entire panzer and the hull section of the ostwind impervious to small caliber fire apart from the grill on the back which, if hit enough would kill the engine , possibly cause fire that ignites ammo (just to keep quiet all the 'they used to bounce 50 cals off the floor and hit the underside' group :))>COFF BS<
They seemed to be happy to have the LW flyers have their 20mm cannons be useless against tanks for over a year so why should those that fly 50caliber planes complain?
The way i see it the panzer is the ONLY Gv that should feel pretty much totally safe vs almost all aircraft guns in the game, apart from those cailbers that were DESIGNED to kill tanks like the 23mm iL2 cannons.

ALL other caliber cannons should require the CORRECT angle of attack at VERY close distances like it says they needed in the history books.That means less than 500 meters. Most 20mm will penetrate armour if they have the specialised AP ammo, are fired at almost 90 degree to the armour plate,and are fired within an effective range, which incidently is not outside 1k like i see in AH often. (ok im not an expert, Tony Williams take over here ;))

Ive had a p51 dive at my panzer fire from 1.5k to 1.1k before pulling up, hitting me with about 5 hits and I lost top mg,turret gun,and tracks.Now Im not annoyed anymore because now i expect this silly damage but it NEEDS looking into.

we dont want people saying 'yeah AH is great , but the ground vehicles are unrealistic and no fun', we want tank lovers to come and drive the damn things! :D

personally i think the answer is to make the killing of GVs a SKILL.
give use timed fuse bombs so we can perform the tank busting that is shown in books.
Bombs of 250lbs or more hitting next to a tank(within reason) should throw it up in the air like a 'box of matches' just like it is described the tiger tanks were when the allies bombed them during the Normandy battle, and tiger tanks were something rediculous like 40 tonnes? MUCH heavier than m16s,m8s or even the panzerIV.
Rockets as you can see in those famous typhoon films are no paultry weapon either! They threw up huge amounts of earth in those films and i feel they should do much more damage than they do now in AH.

so lets make it right.If someone bothers to take the RIGHT weapon(ie bombs and rockets) for the job of killing heavily armoured vehicles then fair enough they get kills. If they are skilled shots hitting the top of turrets or the rear of the tank, or they fire at extreme close range with 20-37mm then give them the damage they deserve.But please dont allow any old joe shoot off 20 50 cals and write off a tank.
M16s,M3s,ostwinds turret,even M8s are no match for a machine gun that fires inside their protective body from above(ie where the crew are manning guns etc and are almost totally expossed) and so SHOULD be easier to kill but med-heavy tanks? No No No.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2002, 04:20:25 PM by hazed- »

Offline Naudet

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2002, 04:26:49 PM »
Quote
5 rounds don't kill, but 2 rounds do? What are the Variables? Where were the hits? What Ranges? ect.


Its very simple, range and attack angle was the same. And this on more than one occasion. About 10-12 of them now. Both me and my opponent stood still, facing Front-Front, hitting at the same distance, and i guess we both used AP rounds (otherwise the HE would be the better ones, cause i used AP). And in all those cases, he got me with 2-3 rounds, while he never blew up, and showed damage only after 4-6 hits.

I only do real ground war since about 3 weeks, but in this weeks it was obvious that there was something wrong with the GV modeling. I mentioned that in post before.
And i dont use a please, cause even to the most gentle requests about GVs i never got any answer yet from HTC.


@Hazed: I totaly agree with you, GV killing should be a skill. As it is now, the GV-Killers are worthless. Why should i up a slow IL2 or Hurri, with whom i have to close to D300 to get a kill, when i can use a 0.5 cal armed bird, and kill from D500+.

As i see it, the PZR should be immune to anything smaller than 20mms. Maybe the top MG can be the only part that gets damaged by small caliber guns, but thats all.

Offline Tac

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2002, 08:10:04 PM »
Hehe, I got a film of my M8 at A30 in Baltic shooting shell after shell after AP shell at a flaktank and having most of them BOUNCE off. I managed to get in to point blank range and hit a flak on the side 2 times and it blew up (I think 2nd shell hit the turret.. "player" kill"?).

Now, the funny thing is when I ran out of AP shells I went down to the spawn point and used my SINGLE 50 cal gun to disable and kill several flaktanks and 1 panzer at d100 ranges.. when I ran out of 50 cal I used the .303 mg.. and killed 3 more flaktanks with it (303 rounds firing at the turret and WHAM! turret was dead).

The 50 cal was easy to de-track a tank with (as it should), but it also whacked Pzr turrets, which it shouldnt do. The Flaktanks I shot with the .50 I fired at the turret in many occassions started smoking.. I dunno if it was engine damage or turret out, but the flaktank .efluffied soon after that.

Offline Wilbus

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2002, 04:06:29 AM »
And who says 50 cals aren't overmodelled? ;)
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson

Liberating Livestock since 1998, recently returned from a 5 year Sheep-care training camp.

Offline GRUNHERZ

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HTC fix the GV modeling
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2002, 04:15:37 AM »
HTC doeasn't care about GV modeling accuracy or logic. Didn't HiTech or Pyro hack some game in the past so he could lob tank shells miles and miles with pinpoint accuracy? Is the  type who you think will deliver a strong GV model? :)  I hear that WW2OL game is good for tanks. AH is for fighters. Leave it at that.