Author Topic: Strat gameplay discussion  (Read 497 times)

Offline 10Bears

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Strat gameplay discussion
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2002, 07:06:15 PM »
Heya Sabre,

 Just wanted to pop in for a second to say germany and sgrad res.es are on my server for testing.

I'm trying to incorperate Sabre's ideas into both maps.

depots control all strat guns in the district.
depots can spawn vhs.

This makes depots a very juicy target... however, you have to destroy all guns/buildings for a capture.

I've build several train yards in Germany.. i'ts just bombable rolling stock but that's a good idea about degrading the country's ability to use trains.  Right now it's just a cool thing for P47s or P38's to swoop down on.

Hitech's idea of destroying the city would delay shipments of supplies is a good one.. What if your map has ten cities? Destroy HQ... better.

Here I got a question.. Why are trains/stations assigned to country but trucks are assigned to depots?

Offline Tilt

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Re: Strat gameplay discussion
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2002, 09:40:01 AM »
Some comments......

It could mean the same thing but it would be better IMHO if down time was looked upon as rebuild time..........

Then I would like to set the commencement of rebuild time from a point in time where logistics became available.

Even given this the rebuild time could be effected by the field town content. (half the town objects destroyed = rebuild time  x 2)

Then tie this into a 100% logistic based model for rebuild.

ie no rebuild without logistic delivery......... if convoys, barges, trains  or M3's /C47's do not get  to the field or depot or factory then nothing happens. No rebuild takes place......... at all.

Very much as present we would have a multi tiered level

I suggest in reverse order

Fields are replenished by the contents of trucks, barges, player C47's or player M3's. (logistic carriers) Each of these logistic carriers would replenish field stocks (fuel,ammo,barracks, radar,AAA, Hangers) to an amount directly proportional to the carrier type (a convoy will carry more stuff than an M3) , its source (convoys from depots with depleted stores carry less than those from whole depots ) and even maybe its condition (a convoy thats lost a truck should deliver less than a whole convoy).

Depots are replenished by trains arriving from stations. depots will possess silos (fuel,ammo,barracks, radar,AAA, Hangers) convoys or barges leaving depots will reflect the amount of materiel in the silos. As stated above.

Also if the "town" structure is depleted then the frequency of convoys leaving a depot is decreased.

Depots can also be appropriately replenished by player driven C47 / M3's.

Depots can also be replenished by other depots (Like a stock transfer) via convoy or barge using the same method as above.

Stations become super depots they have silos of stuff just like depots. They feed standard depots with train loads of stuff. However they are fed differently. Trains from factories to stations only carry one logistic relevant to the factory source.

Again the frequency of trains leaving the station is effected by the % of town buildings still standing.

Stations cannot feed stations they can only be fed by single source logistics.

Stations will be capturable once town and ack objects are fully destroyed.

Factories and cities feed stations. We would add another factory called "Engineering". This is what will act as the source for hanger logistics . Trains always leave factories and cities full but their frequency is effected by the number of town objects in the factory/ city.
 
Factories can feed more than one station by a track.

All factories will be capturable once all town and ack objects are destroyed.

Cities feed factories as well as  stations they supply labor to build town objects. Labor is handled as a logistic resource in stations and depots just as the others are. Labor is also used to rebuild town objects in depots and  stations.

The link between cities and factories is also by trains.

Cities will be capturable once its town and ack objets are destroyed. Cities are rebuilt by cities all maps should give every nation 3 or more cities.

it may seem complex but actually the maths is quite simple once the objects are told to behave certain ways.

Some stuff would have to be upgraded tho

a) train tracks would have to be able to cross as will roads.
b) a new factory called engineering.
c) silo objects with a capacity criteria would have to be created.
d)Convoy,barge and train carriage objects could be asigned to recource criteria and act like mobile silos. (truck1 as ammo truck 2 as fuel etc)
e) we could get rid of the training factory and use the labor resource to also replenish barracks.

Some changes to game play rules

Presently an MA reset occurs when a side has a depleted number of fields / depots. I would add another criteria which would be that a reset should occur when a side has a depleted  strat capacity. This could be initiated by several criteria....total silo capacities......or...... total factory ownership.......or...... key factory ownerhip (fuel, ammo,engineering).

I would favour the key factory ownership criteria with a possible added time constraint. eg a side without fuel or ammo or engineering factories for more than 30 mins forces a reset.

The rest of the game considerations comes from good map design. As cities are captured then the strat model slows for one side and speeds up for the other. As factories are taken then (according to the railway routes) whole sectors could  (after a period of attrition)be deprived needed rebuild resources resulting in their subsequent capture.

When a side is deprived an essential resource in total then further game play is wrecked and so a strategic loss is incurred and a reset forced.

Tilt
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Offline Preon1

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Re: Re: Strat gameplay discussion
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2002, 10:53:26 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Tilt
Then tie this into a 100% logistic based model for rebuild.


While I agree that a strat system with rebuild based entirely on logistics is more realistic, I think it would hurt gameplay.

I suggest that spontaneous rebuild still be around (all those mechanics running around on the field should be able to get SOMETHING working with what they have on hand) but should take more time than the standard 15 mins / half hour and should be slightly randomized.  Attacking a base's resupply should prolong the damage just long enough for somebody to go land and grab a goon (and still, things should pop up because you shouldn't be able to count on a base staying down.)

The goal is not to make a system with strategic elements that overwhelm all others, but a system where a group of 10 well regimented pilots can create and execute plans that give them a greater chance at capturing bases aside from the simple rush/gangbang.

Offline Seeker

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Strat gameplay discussion
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2002, 11:03:43 AM »
Figured this really belongs here, rather than the General board. Hope HTC folks read this.

http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=46423&referrerid=710

Offline Preon1

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Strat gameplay discussion
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2002, 11:25:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seeker
MA strat weenies are nutless bags of wind
Which is why none of the caps lock key challenged, socialy deficient blubber eaters have stepped forward to volunteer as
Allied command for the Sicily scenario.


Could it be that despite all the rhetoric of "multi-layered" gaming; strategic awareness and mentaly maturity they in fact have to come to realise that it takes more to win a war than a couple of gang bang base capture "misshuns"? and that the real warriors of the virtual skies are the furballers, against whom the Generallisimo's are as milk skinned, doe eyed choirboys awaiting a rude awakening?

Could it be that despite all the protestations of historical interest, interlectual maturity and MA ennui they prefer to hide in the anonymous mass of the MA rather than actualy partake of a war game?

Could it in fact be that the oh-so-superior Generallisimos are in fact no more than pimply no lifer virgins with testacles the size of sultanas and no one to talk to on Squad channel?

You're scared of me. All of you.

Winers.


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#1 Sqn. Spitler Youth

YMMV

Worn with Pride!
 
[/SIZE]


Damn...  well...  name calling and poor spelling and grammar aside (assuming those were on purpose to compliment the name calling)...  you're wrong, but there's nothing there worth attacking.

I admit that I have a very slanted view on this, but the purpose in a furballer's life is to lift a fighter, generate some kills, get shot down, and lift again.  There's nothing wrong with this deathmatch arena mentality, but that's no excuse for you to post that.

This is a reasonable discussion on how to improve life for your so called 'generallisimo's without hurting the life of the furballers.  Maybe you could chime in with something constructive?

Offline Tilt

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Re: Re: Re: Strat gameplay discussion
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2002, 05:28:24 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Preon1


While I agree that a strat system with rebuild based entirely on logistics is more realistic, I think it would hurt gameplay.

 


I would profer that any system could unbalance game play if improperly implemented. Either through innappropriate use of  time constants, map layout or supply  quantity variables.

Any system can use modifiers to enhance gameplay without changing the core principle.

Some examples that may be used in the 100% logistic model

1) All facilities could be capable of being topped up to 125% or even 150% of logistics required for peak performance.

2) capture modifiers could be made more numerous (more town objects, scattered more about...............more ack objects) for cities, factories and or  fields, depots or stations.

3) proper carpet bombing  required due to wind and drift factors reducing bomb accuracy from high level bombers.

4) replenishment values of resupply can be chosen to balance normal area inertia.


the key aspect of the 100% model is that fields / facilities cut off from their strat sources should perish. IMHO this is more preferable than a field lasting for some time with poor ammo / fuel reserves or occasional FH facilities coming and going. If logistic supply is cut then lack of replenish ment could mean that the end quickly happens as attrition uses up recources. the field is lost and the combat moves on to an area where strat supply isstill secure.


To actually do this (cut the logistic supply) may not be a simple task and would require much combat around a single zone(which is good game play).  However once (if) done and sustained for even a short period then the end should be swift Capture should be quickly enabled to allow gameplay to move on to another area without the need for folks to fly 20 mins just to reach the area of action.

Whilst we would see fields with full strat supply should be quite difficult to capture.


The other aspect is the role of the high alt buff ( or buff formation that may be coming). It should be strat based not tactical yet we find it is used tactically. Apart from occasional mission based massive jabo gang bang raids it is the heavy buff which is presently used to take out gun pits, hangers and pinpoint individual targets on air fields most successfully. The 100% model will give the carpet bombing heavy buffs a vital strat role one they may need if their present one is removed. If less accurate formation flying buffs  are coming a role must be found for them else another imbalance will occur whilst the  jabo role becomes the core battle field ground attack tool ( Along with the panzer). The obvious indeed historical role ( for heavy buffs) is strat targets.

And whilst the strat target requres a fairly large group of buffs then they become the focus of a zone of combat al beit at a higher altitude.

Just my opinion

Tilt
Ludere Vincere