N1K -problem

[Saurdaukar]

AW - no you did not read about "someone" trying to perk the 202... read it again.  Again I must reiterate that it isnt the plane nessessarily that we have a problem with - its the ability of a mediocre stick to kill a great stick because the AC is good at everything which effectively nullifies any attempt at ACM or using your planes strenghts to expolit his weakness... it doesnt have one!  The only weakness a NIKI has is the unskilled pilot driving it.  Here are some scenarios Im sure most, if not ALL of you, can relate to.

1.  Your an alt monkey - 25K in a P51 ready to claim your first victim... whats that below you?  A HAH!  A NIKI!  Well - hes facing away, 5K below, level and at a decent clip and doesnt have a chance in hell, right?  So you dive, figuring that if he rolls and tucks under like any normal pilot would you can simply have another go at him.  So the distance shrinks and suddenly at about D1.5  he pulls STRAIGHT up - HAH!  You think - now Ive got him  - assuming hell hang up there like anything but a zeke - but no - he is somhow able to turn right INTO you!  Now any other plane wouldnt be able to do that at speed - now he looses 500 odd rounds of 20mm and 3 of them hit you in the face... youre dead because it knocked something off... bummer.  Your left to whine on the BBS...

2.  Rolling along in your 190D9 looking for trouble at 15K - you found it - co alt dot, 15K... you wait to ID - NIKI - HELL NO!  You say to yourself, double over and run away from him droping 4K ft a minute with wep on... but wait... HES GAINING ON YOU!  Sadly you are forced to scissors and lose your E - of course the NIK dweeb isnt sure what to do now so he just starts spraying - 2 of the 300 rounds fired hit your tail... bummer.  Your left to whine of the BBS...

3.  Last but not least - youre up in your F4U4 - got 60 perks on the line.. its faster than hell and tough as that bully in the 3rd grade.  You spot something.. a furball up ahead.. youve got alt - maybe 3K... lets see... NIKIs... La7's... Spits... welcome to the MA.  So you set up - gonna catch of of those dweebs trying to shoot down your countrymen... but no... youve been spotted... you know when it happenes because the fight STOPS!  All the NIKIs have forgotten about the planes they were after and see... a PERK plane!  Must kill it... must kill the perkplane... of course not even an uberNIK can catch an F4U4 but they will try.. oh yes they will... they will chase you for 3 sectors and fire all their ammunition at D1.3, socre a hit now and again.. after all - out of 1,000 rounds, somethings gotta hit, right?  Sure it does, here you are leading a pack of 4 or 5 NIKIs to your field maybe theyll let you land?  Nah... gotta come up with something else - so you state your location and your situation and ask for help... you might get it, you might not - at this point your only hope is that they run out of fuel before you do.. not likely considering the astounding range of the NIK.. alas, it is a shambles.. your forced to whine on the BBS...


Tour 25 - 23 Kills of N1K2, 9 Kills By N1K2

Incedently, I took out a NIKI for the fist time about a week ago since Ive been on AH... I dont understand it - fast as hell, turns on a dime, mucho ammo, big guns, tough as hell, doesnt compress, great climb rate, good range, etc etc etc... got 3 kills and it was the first time I was in the plane - that shouldnt even happen - hell - I wasnt even trying.  The plane is simeply uber and steps must be taken to reduce its effectiveness - new guys are perfectly able to learn the game with a Spitfire or a Hurri, or hell, even a Zeke.  A plane like the NIK that is great at EVERYTHING is a damper on the enjoyment of the sim for the vast majority of the population.  If its any concession I dont think the Chog is perked hi enough - too easy to get kills - but at least it has its limitations.

Rude?  Do I win?  

Mazz
<-TFC->

[MANDOBLE]

Well, I think my opinnion is well known here: IMO, planes should be perked based on usage, not just performance, guns or whatever, just usage.

We may have a set of planes perked forever (262, Tempest, Ta, etc) and a set of planes perked temporaly based on overusage.

The usage may be calculated based on plane deaths, or just on plane sorties, but never in plane kills. For example, something as simple as top 3 more used planes perked: First 8 points, second 4 points and third 2 points.

There are some planes that are used massively as jabo platforms, and they deaths number is inflated due ack or flak fire. Dont counting deaths to ground defenses would solve the problem.

With this system you will probably have the N1K2 perked the first day of a tour, but unperked the second day and so on. And people will find a much more planeset-rich arena.

If you think that perking the 3 more used planes (dinamically) would harm the gameplay, then we have a real problem with our current planeset.

[straffo]

Originally posted by mrsid2
Uh, Akeagle, which arena were you playing on?

The most common move with fast turning planes like hurricane or n1k or spit is to pull the nose up to shoot HO to the bouncing enemy. This is 90% resulting in the whines..

Of course then too its also the attackers fault if he goes for the shot. But that's where it's coming from. A perfectly good offensive manouver (bounce) is often turned into a HO while the attacker is in dive.

What else can you expect ?

Did you expect them to outclimb/outrun you ?

Na ... it's operfectly normal for a T&B fighter to HO/snapshot you that the way they kill ...

[Vermillion]

If you guys hate the N1K2, just wait for the Ki84.  Your panties will really be in a knot after a few fights with it

Strange, but when I'm in my P51D or Fw190D9, I have no problem at all extending away from Niki's as long as he doesn't have more than 3k to 5k on me and I'm not sitting on the deck slow with no alt to dump to get up to speed.

It sounds to me that your turning at first sight of the Niki as he's coming straight at you and then pointing your nose down to run. Think about it, he starts at 5k or so and you then begin to turn and get slow. So now you've given him your direct six, you at or close too stall speed and he's at 2.0k or so before you even begin to accelerate (which he does better). Duh if your getting caught this way!!! No wonder.  Keep your speed up, go into a high speed nose to nose pass, and make HIM burn E turning 360 degrees while you accelerate down and away.

[H. Godwineson]

Saudaukar,

Just got around to reading this thread.  Your point about perking being related to production numbers of these aircraft during wartime is spot on.

By the way, the figures you quoted for the N1K reflect two production models.  The early model N1Ks were underpowered and unreliable but were produced in the greatest numbers.  Only 400 of the late model, upgraded N1Ks were produced before the war's end.

Shuckins

[SKurj]

Perking based on production numbers is just baaaaad...

In the case of the Axis, some aircraft were not uber, nothing special, and yet allied bombing etc prevented large numbers being built...

Perking based on popularity, doesn't quite work either.  As with the perking of one plane leads to the rise in popularity of another.  Eventually we would all need points to up in a goon.


If HTC stand firm, and not perk any more of the current plane set all will be well +)
I predict that the Ki84  may need to be perked though, just from sheer popularity/performance...


SKurj

[Sikboy]

Originally posted by mipoikel
2. Exiting to see how many posts this thread gives us...

I can't believe that this teeniest drop of blood has created such a feeding frenzy. Trolling is so easy in here it's hardly even sporting.  It's like shooting a beached whale.

-Sikboy

[AKEagle+]

Rather than reply to specifics, let me re-state what I was trying to say.

If you die in the arena, it isn't the fault of the planeset.  It is your fault. Per'iod, full stop, stop whining about it and figure out how to win the next one.

It ain't the plane it's the pilot.  While it is easier to get on CH 1 or this BBS than admit you screwed up, you won't learn anything unless you put the blame where it belongs, and then grow from the lesson.

Stop being a victim,and start being a victor.

Many of you are upset about this and that plane. What I am concerned about is that we are developing an arena that may not attract newbies (HTC should be concerned if they want to survive).  Many have made disparaging remarks about FA3 without having flown it on line.  Well, if we drive the newbies to FA3 or some other sim, what will happen to AH the one we love?  This ain't rocket science.

This is supposed to be fun

AKEagle+

[sourkraut]

Good tip Verm.  That's the kind of answer we need to these threads .

[Gremlin]

Saurdaukar posted a list of numbers of planes produced.  Why not have a limited number of each plane available, in some pre-defined ratios.  e.g.  a rule which says that for each country there may only be 10% spits, 5% n1ks, 2% 262's etc.  You would then unperk all planes and scrap the whole perk system forever.  Of course there would be the 'I can never fly a spit whine'  The solution to that would be a kind of waiting list.  So when you choose a plane which is not currently available you go on a list and are notified when one is available for you.  In the mean time ya go find something else.  Just an idea.



Gremlin.

[xHaMmeRx]

Originally posted by mrsid2
.... The sucker will initially outdive you (initially = for long untill speed goes over 500mph) and outmanouver you if he manages to catch you.

In the tests I've conducted, this is not true.  While the Nik gets a very quick advantage (diving from 200mph), it is gone by 400 with the P-51 reaching 500 well before the Nik.

My test results are posted here along with the test procedures used if you'd like to try them yourself.  Keep in mind, these tests are with the planes starting at the same speed.  If the Nik is already faster because it's already been diving, that's another story

HaMmeR
www.netAces.org - Tactics, Plane Data, and More!

[mrsid2]

If you read my post carefully you'll notice I was describing a scenario with N1k having E-advantage.

[Gixer]

Personally I always look forward to seeing Niki's



...-Gixer

[Hristo]

If you perk Niki, Japan will be left have mid-war planes only in a late war arena.

Better wait for Ki 84. then perk the Niki because it was much more rare than Ki 84, which should stay unperked.

[mrsid2]

LOL good joke Hristo.

Judging from what impact it had at WB, the Ki84 will make the n1k look like sopwith camel.

Now THAT will be the ride-of-choice for all dweebs on arena. Fast, agile, great guns.. It has everything the n1k misses and loses on almost no area.

I'm predicting Ki84 will be perked after one TOD if it won't be introduced as a perk.