Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...

[Fester']

...is well modelled in Aces High.

the sim does a good job of simulating how modern day fighters use vast amounts of information on the enemy to position themselves for attack and to keep high situational awareness by keeping their head down in the cockpit and seeing far beyond visual range versus scanning the sky for the enemy. one wonders how many pilots in world war 2 would have been saved from bounces, ambushes and other surprise attacks if they were given the tools that our modern fighters have.

[AKDejaVu]

New id.. not much has changed

AKDejaVu

[DeeZCamp]

Quote: "New id.. not much has changed   "


Hes telling the Truth though,.. How could this be a bad thing for him to tell the truth?

I agree with you fester... I Also Feel that Our heads are too busy scanning the MAP radar, for cons.. as well as FIGHTING Big RED placards placed above the enemy instead of the enemy aircraft.

                   

Deja,... I do not understand how you could disagree with him      

[AKDejaVu]

All we need now is a visual representation that provides 1/10th the information that a pair of eyes in a real 3d world could provide and we'd be set.

Until then, we can just sit back and complain about the way its done.  Afterall, nobody's really going to get it perfect for some time.

So...  The initial post is simply a troll.. by the master himself.

AKDejaVu

[Zigrat]

dejavu

he has a new id and alot has changed. when he was on the other team from me i goaded him many times and he never took the bait. he hasnt exploded on channel 1 or anything.

how bout you shut the f up once in a while, fester brings up a good point. im tired of you. you have the same handle, and still the same old crap.

bring it.

[Hangtime]

Because hes an ASSasin, thots why.  

I liked the SEA settings we had.. enemy not icon'd till 3.0..

It's true; we gotta lotta playability concessions for icons and SA crutches galore, but if the MA had anything more difficult ther'd only be about 12 of us icon haters as suscribers in 6 months.  

[SOB]

I thought it was a great change when they first implimented the 6k icons and disappearing when out of sight, and I still do.

It'd be nice to see the radar changed up a bit tho'.  I currently use the clipboard radar as an SA crutch all the time, and it'd be interesting how gameplay would change without that option available.  Not sure if it would be better, but it'd be nice to try it.  Of course, I suppose I could just stop bringing up the clipboard  


SOB

[Rocket]

There is an inflight map?
Damn no wonder I die all the time. How ya get it?

S!
Rocket

   

[Tac]

remove the laserrangefinders, use ww2ol's fading icon feature to tell distance. At d6.0 it would be barely visible, at d1.0 itd be neon colored. That way you will have a harder time telling if a con is jumping you or not.

Another option might be icon visibility per time you look in that direction. say, stare in same direction for 2 seconds and icons will go from barely visible to completely visible (including rangefinder) at the 2nd second.

[Creamo]

I could see the icons themselves, as in fonts and size, being smaller. I never could understand why they are so big. Would that be so hard to change?

As far as dar, it sure helps me find a fight. Hate to not have it at all, but it would take about 1 minute to adjust and I couldn't care less. At least have a bunker you could go into at your field prior to takeoff and get a visual of the arena situation. Certainly in WWII they had a good idea of what was going on and reports from the front.

Oh, and get a towel, I think Zig pee'd his pants flipping out on AKD.

[dtango]

Fester- was great flying with you lately in all those missions in rookland.

On this topic, I have to say that I think your statement regarding WW2 BVR SA is not wholely accurate.

Thread I had posted recently on the topic: http://www.hitechcreations.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=010788

Air defences even early in the WW2 for combatants were fairly sophisticated and definitely favored the defender which could rely on BFR SA from ground controllers that was pretty accurate and timely.  It was typically the attacker flying over enemy airspace that had to rely mostly on visual SA.

Let's dis-spell the myth that BVR SA in WW2 was non-existent or even very crude.  It was quite the opposite.

I'm not saying there couldn't be improvements to AH's BVR SA, just saying if we are using the "historic" or "realistic" trump cards that we consider the facts.

[mrfish]

what creamo said

[AKDejaVu]

how bout you shut the f up once in a while, fester brings up a good point. im tired of you. you have the same handle, and still the same old crap.

Ah.. yes.. he brings up an excellent point.

Why.. just the other day I was thinking that 6k was WAYYYY beyond visible range and the only way I should be able to see it was with the attack radar from a modern day fighter.

And this is so a-typical for cit/fester.  I mean... his threads are usually started with such grace and such a valid non-exagerated point.

 

AKDejaVu

[Zigrat]

i never said 6k was beyond visual range

in fact i found that i could id a f-18 from 3 miles if i concentrated (around 5000 yards)
a hornet is much larger than a p51 though. i doubt i could tell a messer form a p51 at that range, but telling the diff between a p38 or a jug and a 109 would probably not be that much of a stretch.. but i would have to focus onn it a second, leading to the superiority of the general concept of ww2ol's icon system (which while not without flaw is an improvement over what we have here)
the fact thta you can id a con as friend or foe when he is not in visual range, using radar (look at hte bearing, if theres a green dot that way its frinedly, if no dot or a red dot its enemy) is stupid. the fact that you can look at your clipboard and see a con that is you low 6 and not in visual range (obscured) is rediculous. thats what fester is pointing out.

[AKDejaVu]

How many bounces do you think occured over an enemy base?  I mean.. where a fighter completely suprised someone at THEIR base?

Basically.. that's all the removal of dot-dar is going to give you.

Of course, those that like hanging out over an enemy base and suprising people as they launch may not like it quite as much.  Nor would they like that uber flack that picks people off that loiter over a base at 10k.  Nor would they like that 1 ping ack that kills them as they swoop in on someone spawning.

Mix a little bit of truth in with a lot of exageration and you can twist things to conform to any style you like.  Regardless of the handle.. that's what is done here on a regular basis.

If people want suprise bounces like they had in WW2.. they better get ready to be so bored on their flight that they aren't really paying attention.  They'd better get ready to be suprised because they don't usually see the enemy at all on a sortie.  Of course.. that's the kind of fun everyone is looking for.. even in an HA.  Right?

AKDejaVu