Author Topic: Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...  (Read 2557 times)

Offline AKDejaVu

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Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...
« Reply #45 on: July 27, 2001, 11:30:00 AM »
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Thanks for talking sense into me here. I've yet to see any vulching in this game. BTW, how does dar have anything to do with vulching? Lemme guess, with inplane dar, ya see the baddie coming to get you? Well then why are there such world class vulches here? hmmmm.

Now you're being ignorant.

Vulching occurs plenty here.  It occurs plenty at brand x too.

What doesn't occur here (as often) is someone hanging at 5k near a feild hoping someone takes off away from him so he can sneak in for the easy autoclimb vulch on the poor unsuspecting victim.  The dot dar tells you when someone is near the field.  That is it.  Removing this is for the benifit of whom?

The dot dar does not tell you that someone is behind you.  Not unless you take the time to zoom it in, take your eyes off the sky and rely on something that gives you no altitude indication to tell you exactly where a nearby enemy is.

People use dar to vector to incoming enemies AT THEIR OWN FIELDS.  They don't use it to lock onto a target with a pip showing in the hud to highlight the bvr plane for you.  Its simply "dot that way somewhere" and shut the map down.

 
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What's funny is that you apparently think we need to ask your permission to bring up other subjects in a post.

Wow.. you keep sinking to new levels.

Permission?

Ummm.. no.

But if the argument decides to switch directions whimsically.. don't get too upset when its pointed out to you.  The point was stupid... you don't need my permission to be that as you demonstrate on a regular basis.

 
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Poor guy still doesn't get it. I understand your view deja. You like more radar than I do. I'm ok with that. Why do you guys feel so threatened when we express our dislike for it?

And why do you feel threatened when people disagree with your reasoning?

The logic being used to justify major modification or removal is assenine.  Yet.. it comes up again and again.  "realism" gets tossed in... then switched to "whell brand-x does it different" when "realism" doesn't work too well.  The whole thing is pathetic.

The things that happen within 12.5 miles of an enemy base are being discussed here.  Within 12.5 miles.. they had a tad clue things were coming in.  Did they have enough time to do anything about it... nope.  Do they here?  Nope.

Raids like Pearl Harbor were detected on radar, but they were misinterpreted.  How many times have major raids on bases been overlooked until it was too late in AH?

The information was there in both scenarios.. how people chose to act on the information is virtually identical too.

 
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Did you hear guys on AGW 3-4 ago posting that they wanted in-plane radar? I can't remember one post concerning the subject. How many do you see here now that say there is too much radar?

LOL! OK... you have to win this one.  Of course, I played a little AGW 2 and 3 and can say that if you're using them as an example of what should be done in AH... you are way off base.

Pick and chose.. pick and chose.  Who can be the defense/example for the day.  :rolleyes:

AKDejaVu

Offline Fatty

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Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...
« Reply #46 on: July 27, 2001, 11:32:00 AM »
One wonders how many pilots in world war 2 would have died from bounces, ambushes, and other suprise attacks had they been limited to even 1600x1200 pixel views, required to make input combinations simply to move his eyeballs and view the forward horizon range, and had to look down and type simply to speak to his wingman as our modern fighters do.

Offline Hornet

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« Reply #47 on: July 27, 2001, 12:01:00 PM »
I'm guessing that the supporters of no icons in MA all fly in high res mode.
Hornet

Offline eskimo2

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Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...
« Reply #48 on: July 27, 2001, 12:04:00 PM »
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Originally posted by flakbait:
How far out have I spotted a B-17? My personal record is something like 8k, but since icons don't go that far I can't confirm the distance. Yesterday morning I had a B-17 ID'd when he was at 24k; I was climbing up to him, passing 14-16k at the time. I can tell the difference between a P-51B and a -51D at 6k. How? One shimmers, one doesn't. Same thing goes for the P-47's; I can spot the difference between them at hideous ranges for the same reason I can with the 51. One is silver and shimmers, the other don't!

I think radar could be tweaked with some. Namely killing the dar-bar a certain distance out, pulling the inflight dot dar, and doing something about con detection. Icons I see has a nifty feature that helps some, and since they vanish when the aircraft passes behind a canopy piece there's no deflection shooting crutch. Range could be pulled a bit I think; what about the tin horns? Some new guys are so green they have trouble taking off on their own. This ain't an expert's sim until we get pre-flight walk arounds and have to blow perk points on our assigned A/C's repairs.

So implement user-selected settings for icons. Each player could turn 'em off, set the range they pop on at, have 'em fade in or out (both if they wanted) etc... Icons fixed. Next: radar. You can't do the WB's system. Why? Cause it's in WB's and HTC isn't about taking the best everyone else has and copying it. There are some things you can't do much with; the NOE dar-bar for example. A text warning? Won't work cause the messages scroll by dang fast when a country is getting blasted. Sound warnings could work along with a quick message in bright green "Enemy spotted in 11.12.1" or something in the text buffer. Ala Check 6 calls. Dot dar is so limited in the MA now there's no reason to change it. Dar-bar on the other hand NEEDS a fix; I've seen enemy build-ups clear across the fraggin map before. So has everyone else. Limit the dar-bar max range down to say 3 grids around a field. Anything farther and you get squat. Altitude could be thrown into the mix too. How? It's like a cone; the lower you are the closer you gotta get before being picked up. So if you're comin in at 40k you'll get picked up farther out, say 1.5 grids instead of half a grid.

Anything else I should add or will this work?


-----------------------
Flakbait [Delta6]
Delta Six's Flight School
Put the P-61B in Aces High
"With all due respect Chaplian, I don't think God wants to hear from me right now.
I'm gonna go out there and remove one of His creations from this universe.
And when I get back I'm gonna drink a bottle of Scotch like it was Chiggy von
Richthofen's blood and celebrate his death."
Col. McQueen, Space: Above and Beyond

  (Image removed from quote.)

My thoughts EXACTLY Flakbait!  Well said.
Please carefully read what he had to say everyone, it makes a lot of sense.

eskimo

Offline DanielMcIntyre

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Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2001, 01:01:00 PM »
Doh, not gonna say anymore really cause I think AKdejavu n SKwulfe gonna start balling soon.  Taking away their precious UNREALISTIC dar.

fine leave dotdar, darbars, toejame why not add powerups too, could float around in the air and when you run into them might give you quantum shields, lasers, BFGS and nailguns?  Ohh and while we're being unrealistic, those A-bomb powerups which kill all cons in icon range with 1 keypress.

doh, facts are that SA awareness in AH is a ton better then any WW2 pilot ever dreamed off.  The dar was crap, communications were unreliable and when the towers went down, they did'nt up 15mins later.  In fact some AC did'nt even have radio, notably russian n japanese AC.

Chow

   :D

Offline AKSWulfe

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Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2001, 01:08:00 PM »
Sorry Zygote, you aren't taking away anything. You haven't even give a reasonable or thought out idea as to why radar is unrealistic or should be removed.

Yes it IS unrealistic, in case you ain't noticed just about everything in the game is with exception to the flight models and how the planes look.

So next time you step on your realism pedastal, I hope that your common sense chimes in and says "Hey buddy, it's the MA there isn't a lick of realism in there and never will be!"

Now go back to reading your WW2 romance novels. Dweeb.
-SW

Offline hblair

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Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...
« Reply #51 on: July 27, 2001, 01:22:00 PM »
lol deja, you're such a granny. Don't have time to go through your post, but I read enough to see you're back off your midol.  ;)

SW, lazs sheddup!  :)

BTW, a few months ago HT said he was considering friendly only radar. If this gets implemented you guys will be against it no? I mean your views on it wouldn't instantly change would they? I know lazs would speak his mind, not too sure about Rosco and Cletus though.

 :)

Offline AKSWulfe

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Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...
« Reply #52 on: July 27, 2001, 01:27:00 PM »
Friendly only radar huh?

When that comes around the mountain I'll log out for my final time.

Germany would of been in deep cheese if it weren't for radar, you know they actually launched interceptors before they broke the coast right?

Britain too... damn and that was in 1940, imagine that!
-SW

Offline DeeZCamp

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Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...
« Reply #53 on: July 27, 2001, 01:32:00 PM »
Why do people want this game to be so easy?


get rid of icons when in close range

get rid of big dar bars

get rid of dar that detects under 500ft agl

get rid of these stupid "GAMEPLAY" throw -ins

make a 50 cal act like a 50 reguardless if its on a b17, or a 202

blah...

Offline AKSWulfe

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Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...
« Reply #54 on: July 27, 2001, 01:34:00 PM »
Those stupid game play concessions are because WE ARE PLAYING WITH A 90 DEGREE FIELD OF VIEW ON A FLAT MONITOR AT LOW RESOLUTIONS USING A HAT SWITCH TO ACT AS OUR NECKS!!

What is so freaking hard to understand about that?
-SW

Offline milnko

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Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...
« Reply #55 on: July 27, 2001, 01:38:00 PM »
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Originally posted by SWulfe:
Citabria/Cit/Fester(what else?) joins the Assassins, now Zig is running behind him kissing bellybutton like a champion.

GO ZIG GO!
-SW

C'mon Wulfe, ya really think that's true, or even a fair thing to say? Zig is expressing his opinion which is in agreement with Fester's, thats all there is to it.

The original post was a back-handed slap at the current radar settings, but Fester was jumped on for expressing it, when the content should have been addressed.

If DJV likes the current radar setup, he should argue in it's favor, not antagonize the person who expressed a different opinion from his.

Zig was a bit strong in his response to DJV I'll grant U, but the TOPIC is about DAR SETTINGS, not Fester.

<S>
Mil

Offline AKSWulfe

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Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...
« Reply #56 on: July 27, 2001, 01:53:00 PM »
Milenko, check your UBB private message thingie.
EDIT: I do believe what Zig posted warranted my reply.
-SW

[ 07-27-2001: Message edited by: SWulfe ]

Offline Yeager

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« Reply #57 on: July 27, 2001, 01:54:00 PM »
because hes an ASSasin, thots why.
====
Theres actually TWO tulips in ASS-ASS-INS Hangtime.  And No, Hblair aint one of em  :D

Just thought Id clear that up.....

Yeager
"If someone flips you the bird and you don't know it, does it still count?" - SLIMpkns

Offline skernsk

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Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...
« Reply #58 on: July 27, 2001, 02:24:00 PM »
RADAR

I am in favour of toning down the dar....but not eliminating it.  I think a 10 mile radius aroung the fields is a good compromise.  It could simulate a radar controller calling out contacts out to 10 miles.

Historiclly I think the British had a system that was able to see much farther and the communication system was able to eliminate any surprises the Germans were working on.  Sine we can't have a virtual voice call out all cons our "in flight dar" would show icons up to 10 miles out.

ICONS

This has been talked about too friggin much in my opinion.  I think this game is hard enough already and I stand on the side that says KEEP ICONS.  I would be in favour of 3k range which cuts them in half.  For you guys that want them shut off....sorry but that is a bad idea.

Offline DeeZCamp

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Beyond Visual Range Air Combat dynamics...
« Reply #59 on: July 27, 2001, 02:33:00 PM »
Quote : "I think this game is hard enough"


lol... yeah those Icons are very "hard" to keep track of  :rolleyes:  :D

I like the idea of having to be on your TOES when in the virtual skies... IT MAKES it alittle more realistic.

You need to have good SA to stay alive.. Always checking your 360 degree Up/down/all around when in a combat situation.

Enemy Icons off would encourage this.
 
That is plain and simple truth... I dont see how it could possibly be argued...

The current icon system allows you to know who/what you are fighting Just by barely catching a glimpse of your surrounding environment... (too easy)


I do like the 10mile radius radar availibity right outside of a base.