Author Topic: 190D9 elevator authority (Read 574 times)

MANDOBLE · « **on:** March 03, 2002, 06:19:05 PM »

Why is so poor at hi speeds?
Tested with several players in DA doing 15k dives in a row of several planes, D9 control finish far below planes like Typh, P51, P47, La7 and P51, all the planes we tested.

Leph, before u write a line, there are a lot of videos of that with D9 piloted by several players.

Is this normal?

Wilbus · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2002, 07:54:18 PM »

Don't have much combat reports from the Dora, but I seriously doubt that it would have worse elevator control then the A version and compress easier, specially since it was a faster plane. Will have to do some research.

mauser · « **Reply #2 on:** March 04, 2002, 03:40:36 PM »

I wondered about this too. Tried to think of possible explanations as to why this is so, such as a heavier engine/longer fuselage, or just because the Dora flies that much faster than the Antons which causes heavier stick forces. I just don't know. And, if those are the reasons, then what would tell us the magnitude of the effects? I thought it was just me, I even pulled all my pitch scales to 100% to see if that helps. The only test flight info I've seen for the Dora is the excerpt in that big Schiffer book on Kurt Tank. But it doesn't say much

It seems there are only engine power/airspeed/climb data available for this machine.

mauser

Raubvogel · « **Reply #3 on:** March 04, 2002, 06:14:26 PM »

What doesn't make sense is that the Dora compresses before the A8. THey both use the exact same wing, they should have almost identical critical mach numbers. Also, with the extended fuselage of the Dora, the elevators should have more authority. Picture the fuselage as a lever....now make that lever longer behind the pivot point (wings)...and it should be more effective.

Furious · « **Reply #4 on:** March 04, 2002, 06:31:03 PM »

you friggin bunch of luftwhinners.

F.

Glasses · « **Reply #5 on:** March 04, 2002, 10:09:16 PM »

I have the film once it hits 510mph the Dora locks up I have the video after that it starts the bumpyness and shortly after that boom.

Naudet · « **Reply #6 on:** March 05, 2002, 04:37:20 AM »

Wilbus, you dont need to do researches, i have everything in memory.

The D9 was superior to the A-Series.
Especially in dive, climb and zoomclimb.

This is not only cause of the more powerful engine, this is also cause the overall drag coefficient of the D9 is lower.

I have posted that in another thread already.

straffo · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2002, 04:59:24 AM »

What look strange for me is that the D9 seems to compress before the Typhoon ...

Looking at the shape of the plane I expected it to compress after ...

why ?

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #8 on:** March 05, 2002, 07:59:27 AM »

Straffo, we were testing also the Typh. When D9 controls got locked, Typh had still good elevator control without needed of trimming. Same with SpitIX. We were amazed with that.
All the planes diving in a row, D9 augering and Typhs and Spit getting out the dive without any trim. This was tested a lot of times, with different pilots each time in each plane, same results all the times.

I noticed the following big difference between D9 and Typh, in the dive, D9 was loosing and loosing elevator control as speed increased, and then controls got locked. With the Spit, but mainly with the Typh u had impressive elevator athority all the time, and then suddenly locked. At hi speeds, both Spit and Typh outturn the D9 by far.

Wilbus · « **Reply #9 on:** March 05, 2002, 08:03:24 AM »

That tiffie is a good diver is very surprising, compare the thickness of the wings with other planes such as the 190 or Spit. Naudet, would it be possible for you to send me some stuff, or point me to places where I can find it?

MANDOBLE · « **Reply #10 on:** March 05, 2002, 08:23:43 AM »

Naudet and Wilbus, this is not a question of who is better diver. In fact, in the tests, Typh was unable to outdive the D9. The problem is only with the elevator authority. D9 looses authority very quickly above 350 mph while planes like the Typh maintain full or almost full control.

Aside of that, with the D9 shaking all the way down, Typh was perfectly stable almost without shakes.

HiTech or Pyro, could u send any light over this? Polular knowledge is that D9 had a very good control at hi speeds, being able to outturn his earlier brothers. Is popular knowledge just a myth?

Wilbus · « **Reply #11 on:** March 05, 2002, 09:05:26 AM »

Mando, I know, but thick wings have a bad effect on ability to get out of dives aswell, I find it strange that plane that never qualified as a fighter is as good as it is in AH compared to other planes, speciall the Dora with its lack of elevator authority.

Furious · « **Reply #12 on:** March 05, 2002, 11:24:57 AM »

Wilbus,

Check here: http://jagdhund.homestead.com/DoraCharts.html

A nice site devoted to the Dora.

F.

Wilbus · « **Reply #13 on:** March 05, 2002, 11:43:01 AM »

Thanks Furious! EXACTLY what I am looking for

Naudet · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2002, 06:11:19 PM »

Wilbus, i can sent you much stuff, i already had sent you something, but that must have been lost.

Mandoble, i think the problem here is not that the D9 locks up, but that the spit and tiffie dont do it.

I read that the FW190 had a critical speed at which it locks up, above that speed only the tail trimmer would get you out of a dive.

I wonder if the tiffie and spit didnt have such speeds.

If i remember right, the critical speed for the D9 was something around 460-470 mph IAS.

And i cant tell that the D9 losses much elevator authority above 350mph, for me it is always easy (often too easy) to fly the plane into blackout at speeds greater that 350mph.