Author Topic: US Steel Tariffs  (Read 1516 times)

Offline gavor

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US Steel Tariffs
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2002, 11:57:09 PM »
You're such a spoilsport :). Stop making me get down off that high horse.

I'll admit though that we make crap cars and most other countries make much nicer ones. Perhaps we should stop trying to compete and just focus on something else.

Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2002, 12:13:23 AM »
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Now which country was it that is 100% totally free trade? I forgot already.

Shouldn't countries be trying to make it better, though?

What's so bd about this is there's no attempt to justify it by claiming unfair competition, simply that American comapnies can't compete, so force prices up to a level where they can compete.

It means other countries will look for an area where they are having difficulties competing with the Americns nd slp their own duties on in retaliation.

The only good side is that it will embarress Tony Blair immensley after his support for Lakshmi Mittal, who has campaigned for the tarrifs.

Offline J_A_B

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« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2002, 12:18:38 AM »
"J_A_B is saying all other countries who produce steel are third world, have a lower standard of living and dont pay their workers enough. Well I say bollocks to that! "

Please don't go down that route Gavor, you know that's not what I'm saying.  I'm not even talking about other developed nations.

Britain, Germany, Austrailia, countries such as those obviously have a standard of living equal to that of the USA.  You will also take note that these aren't the countires who are bankrupting the US steel industry.   The problem countries are those known as "developing nations".  Actually, other developed nations are also suffering a loss of industry and jobs to developing nations, and often enact tariffs of their own.  

Competition is a good thing.  However, the foreign steel imports which are the topic of this discussion aren't competition because it's not a level playing field.  Would you consider a boxing match fair if one of the participants was permitted to use a baseball bat?

This tariff will force them to actuallly have to compete, rather than just undercutting US companies by virtue of their automatic advantage.  

Again, I've got nothing against you for having a differing opinion.  The interesting thing about this issue is BOTH sides are "right"....the perspective is just different.

J_A_B

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2002, 12:44:29 AM »
Any country who wants free trade with the USA, feel free to eliminate tariffs and duties and quotas on imported goods, and I'm pretty sure our government will do the same.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2002, 01:07:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nashwan
What's so bd about this is there's no attempt to justify it by claiming unfair competition, simply that American comapnies can't compete, so force prices up to a level where they can compete.


Are you going to say that the US is the only country doing this right now?

Britain isn't protecting some industry that simply isn't competitive?

Australia?

Finland?

I haven't bothered to look on the web ... yet...  but I'll wager just about every country is protecting some non-competitive industry against foreign competition with tariffs.

Is it just bad because it's steel?

Or is it just bad because this time it's the US in the news?

Or is it bad because this time it's US steel?

Yeah, this is obvious protectionism. My preference is that we wouldn't do that. However, I do have some concern in the "vital to national defense" area.

What I really wish is that if the Governement is going to protect the steel industry that it "invite" Steel Ownership, Management and Labor to a little sit down meeting and beat them over the head with the "plain truth" club. The entire industry has to realize this can't go on and on and that it's a "one time deal" so they had better get their sh*t together. In short, this protection needs to result in a more competitive industry, even if the government has to threaten or force them to it.

But that will never happen.

(BTW, I personally don't think this would have been avoided if Gore had won. I think he'd have faced the political, economic and defense realities and done the same thing. Just my opinion.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2002, 01:19:05 AM by Toad »
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Offline -dead-

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« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2002, 02:31:48 AM »
Quote
Competition is a good thing. However, the foreign steel imports which are the topic of this discussion aren't competition because it's not a level playing field. Would you consider a boxing match fair if one of the participants was permitted to use a baseball bat?


Hehe isn't that feelthy communist talk? :D

Strange fact - FWIW -  The world's freest economy, as rated by the Washington-based Heritage Foundation for the past 6 consecutive years, (the Cato Institute/Fraser Institute have continuously rated it as the most free economy in the world since 1986) is currently owned by feelthy communists - Hong Kong.

[tongue in cheek]Sadly even we poor, deluded communists in Hong Kong with our freest economy in the world don't have a truly free market economy. If only we did - then we could all buy hard drugs & nuclear weapons in our local supermarkets, and start companies that sell sewage mixed with sugar as soft drinks, and untested pharmaceuticals, with no let or hindrance. Damn! If only our repressive government would just let the all-wise consumer decide![/tongue in cheek]

OK  that's enough puerile humour from me - back to the economics:
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Offline Dead Man Flying

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« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2002, 02:55:10 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by -dead-
Strange fact - FWIW -  The world's freest economy, as rated by the Washington-based Heritage Foundation for the past 6 consecutive years, (the Cato Institute/Fraser Institute have continuously rated it as the most free economy in the world since 1986) is currently owned by feelthy communists - Hong Kong.


The United States ties for fourth on this list while China weighs in at an atrocious 121st.  If, as you stated, another list has ranked Hong Kong the freest economy since 1986, this must be due more to British influence than to Communist China's influence.

The real question is how long China can bear to keep its hands out of Hong Kong's economy.

-- Todd/Leviathn

Offline funkedup

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« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2002, 03:51:32 AM »
Oh come off it Todd!  Hong Kong's economy was nothing until the Reds took over!

Offline Vulcan

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« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2002, 04:11:22 AM »
The funny thing about this is that the American consumers are so STOOOPID they don't realize this indicates a 30% pricerise across the board on goods with a large proportion of steel in them.

You see, 30% indicates the current differential between US and foreign steel costs. So now your manufacturers will turn to local steel producers, who were roughly 30% more expensive (and hence lost business). Your manufacturers will in turn pass this cost onto you, the consumer, who will of course now have less money to spend. Which means you will, of course, buy less, and inevitably put someone out of a job in another US industry.

Secondly, now US manufacterers have 'protectionism' forcing the business their way they can afford to relax and put out lower grade product. US Steel 'was higher grade', hence more expensive, often a good sales pitch. Now they no longer compete... vroooom down goes the quality.

Its a false economy, sooner or later it catches up with you, all you're doing is shifting the problem.

Now the wierd thing is those most affected are countries with similar costs of living to the USA, ie Aussie, NZ, Europe etc. Why can they produce it 30% cheaper? We still have to pay our workers toejamloads :) so there must be something really screwed up with your industry.

You're screwed any way you look at it - just remember you're now subsidising an inefficient, uncompetitive industry - deja vu Soviet Union.

Offline -dead-

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« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2002, 04:50:24 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
Oh come off it Todd!  Hong Kong's economy was nothing until the Reds took over!


ROFLMAO! Now that's the spirit!
“The FBI has no hard evidence connecting Usama Bin Laden to 9/11.” --  Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI, June 5, 2006.

Offline john9001

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« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2002, 08:33:00 AM »
oh come on people, imported steel is uber, so bush perked it

Offline Krusher

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« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2002, 08:41:51 AM »
I just checked out the Austrailian Department of foreign Affais and Trades web site http://203.6.171.3/publications/aus_us_fta/summary2.html

It seems that Austrailia has higher tarrifs on sugar and dairy products then then the US does.


quote
Background
In 1999 Australia exported US$8.1 billion of goods and services to the United States, while the United States exported US$15.2 billion worth to Australia.
Trade with the United States is far more important to Australia in a relative sense than is Australias trade to the United States (see chart 2).
Australian exports to the United States account for around 11 per cent of total Australian exports and the United States is the source of nearly one fifth of Australias imports.
By contrast, United States exports to Australia account for just 1.6 per cent of total United States exports and Australia is the source of only 0.7 per cent of United States imports.

looks like your argument is pretty petty IMHO

Offline Eagler

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« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2002, 08:49:24 AM »
better you than us

Bush is doing what he has to do to prevent the layoff of more US workers in OUR struggling economy .... sorry.
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Offline Toad

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Milo made a real good point.......
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2002, 08:53:53 AM »
A strong dollar makes U.S. goods more expensive overseas and foreign goods cheaper in the US.

As Milo said:

 
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"What is interesting is how the world values their sovereign interests but invest in T-Bills and T-Bonds.
[/b]
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Offline fd ski

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« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2002, 09:26:37 AM »
Republican communists. Now i've seen everything.