The future GV introductions in AH?......

[Creamo]

You sound drunker than me. Or retarded.

Someone, as sad as it is, WILL be sober. At least you won't have a headache.

[hazed-]

CC3???

jesus hijacking threads is a bloody artform on this forum.

80% of the posts here have nothing to do with the original thread.

[Badger]

Originally posted by wulf14
Hey Badger those average engagement ranges and such you posted above, are those from training materials when you were in the service?  If so...I'd LOVE to get scans of all that stuff. I'll pay in beer, etc. whatever you want. What's your current email? Mike/wulfie from WB

Hi Mike

Nice to hear from you again. My email is in my profile as I try not to hide it.

The data is from an actual U.S. research study.  Contact Charles Lemons, who's the curator of the Patton Museum for the full report, but here's the extract of the relevant portion we've been discussing.  By the way, this study correlates to the anecdotal information I heard when serving with Sherman WWII veterans who landed at Normandy with the 6th Canadian Armored Regiment.

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The Range and Angular Distribution of A.P. Hits on Tanks, Ballistic Research Laboratories, Aberdeen Proving Ground MD, December 1951 (Project TB3-1224B, Memorandum Report # 590)

This study was an analysis of the range and angular distribution of casualties and hits on tanks in WW II (NW Europe). It notes number of reported tank losses for 1st US Army, 3rd US Army, and the reports from the British Army.

Mean engagement range for Allied tanks vs German tanks was 701 yards. 1st Army mean range was 760 yds 3rd Army mean range was 615 yds British 2nd Army mean range was 644 yds

According to the charts 87% of all engagements resulting in casualties were at more than 200 yds, 65% was greater than 400 yds. However, only 2% were at ranges greater than 2000 yds.

It was noted in the report that the range at which most encounters took place was 330 yds - or half the average range. It also noted that most hits were on the front of the hull or turret for US Vehicles, but only for little more than 1/3 of the British tanks was this true.

Several things were concluded during the study:

1. Four of the five engagements between single tanks went to the tank that fired first.
2. One half of all casualties were caused by a single hit and the average number of hits per casualty was less than two.
3. German weapons could penetrate Allied armor, in most cases, out to 2000 yds, whereas Allied guns could perforate German armor only out to about 800 yds.

A Map study was also included for Northern Europe and it concluded that the average range that a tank could see another tank from any random point was 322 yards. The probability that a tank could see 1000 yards at any random point in Northern Europe was less than .05 (less than 5%). It was concluded that tank engagements in Europe was controlled by the terrain - thus limiting tank engagement ranges.

It also noted that in only 3 of 85 cases cited were the tanks actually engaging the gun that knocked them out. It also noted that in only 3% of the cases were the tanks able to return fire before becoming a casualty.
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Regards,
Badger

BTW. I'll still take that beer sometime.  We can get drunk and discuss the trials and tribulations of that particular company we've spoken of many times.