Author Topic: Philosophy 101: Snoop Dog Rulz  (Read 617 times)

Offline -sudz-

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Philosophy 101: Snoop Dog Rulz
« on: March 15, 2002, 10:48:17 AM »
My older brother likes this singer called "Elvis Costello" but I don't like his whiney voice.  I like N'Sync cause they sing like a team, have wholesome lyrics, and rockin' melodies.  To my surprise I found out that not all people like N'Sync (or most of the same things I do), and what's more troublesome, they sometimes like the things I dislike.

That got me to thinking.  What are mechanisms involved with a person embracing this while rejecting that?  No simple "I yams what I yam", or "There's no accounting for taste" suffices to actually explain the diversity of likes and dislikes.

If you take into account these "like"-aquiring processes, you'll see that it's no trivial exercise:

1) Acquired taste - you dislike something at first (sometimes vehemently) and then grow to love it.

2) You love something off the bat, quickly tiring of it to the point of hate.

3) Guilty pleasures - something you like in spite of all reason and logic to the contrary.

The first process eliminates the idea that 'likes' are a recipe of personality, social considerations, and other factors since, if it were true, everything would be established as like-able or stupid upon first encountering something new.  This process actually seems to imply that you contribute something to the conclusion of liking or disliking.

The second process eliminates the proposal that likes are aquired as a reflection of something already within your psychological makeup since it fades faster than your personality changes.

The third process points to the conclusion that 'likes' are not strickly social (although it doesn't discount it as a factor) since confessing a guilty pleasure (such as Wham's "Wake Me Up Before Ya Go-Go") lest you risk ostration or even stoning.

So - what is it then?  If we can figure this out we may be able to do something about the Nikki's unpopularity.

Go,
-sudz

Offline capt. apathy

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Philosophy 101: Snoop Dog Rulz
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2002, 10:51:21 AM »
wait, you say you like n'sync? so you're saying you're a 14 year old girl?






sorry, couldn't resist

Offline LePaul

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Philosophy 101: Snoop Dog Rulz
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2002, 11:01:14 AM »
AH, so you must also have all the New Kids on the Block posters?  Hang on to them, Im sure they'll *eventually* be worth something...:rolleyes:

hehe, just yanking your chain

I like weird music.  If you grabbed the CD out of my car, you'd think I was sniffing glue.  I like soundtracks and music that has momentum to it.  When I drive, I like to feel like Im the master of the human race (thus the "Superman" Soundtrack).  Mix in there some soundtracks from "Independence Day", Star Trek II: Wrath of Khan (Battle in the Mutara Nebula) and top it off with "One Vision", the Queen tune from the movie "Iron Eagle" and you're ready to rock  :)

Each to their own....

Offline Animal

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Philosophy 101: Snoop Dog Rulz
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2002, 11:36:57 AM »
You like N*Sync?
Cause they sing as a team.
wtf...


Are you on a homosexual crack-cocaine trip?

Offline Samm

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Philosophy 101: Snoop Dog Rulz
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2002, 11:39:40 AM »
Wham !? LMAO

Offline AKSWulfe

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« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2002, 11:50:57 AM »
Sweet! Nsync!

Now that's a band!..... no wait, they are just five love muffines some 30+ year old picked to sing his lyrics for him because he would get the living toejam kicked out of him if he sung them.
-SW

Offline Sandman

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Philosophy 101: Snoop Dog Rulz
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2002, 12:08:21 PM »
I've found that the albums I really like, the ones that I play year after year always take me some time to "grow into."

With the exception of "Garbage" most of the stuff I liked right outta the gate now sits on the shelf collecting dust. Maybe it's Shirley Manson.

My guilty pleasure... Divinyls. :D

Oh... and yeah... it's kinda lame to admit it, but I'm really starting to like listening to the Screaming Blue Messiahs.

Don't look at me that way. I didn't name our squad. Talk to Nash. :D
« Last Edit: March 15, 2002, 12:11:10 PM by Sandman »
sand

Offline NATEDOG

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Philosophy 101: Snoop Dog Rulz
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2002, 12:21:54 PM »
Yo, me and Snoop go way back. If ya don't watch it, Snoop Dogg will put da smack down on yo ass, biotch!

Offline Ossie

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« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2002, 01:41:31 PM »
>>The first process eliminates the idea that 'likes' are a recipe of personality, social considerations, and other factors since, if it were true, everything would be established as like-able or stupid upon first encountering something new. This process actually seems to imply that you contribute something to the conclusion of liking or disliking. <<

In my unprofessinal opinion, if something is brand new, say a sound or a taste, the mind needs to categorize that new experience by comparing it to previous experiences of a similar nature. Hence, "it tastes like" or "it sounds like". This includes perceptions based on social interactions, as judgements are often influenced by how peers express their opinions. If you didn't like how that other thing sounded or tasted, you're probably not going to like this new thing very much, at least initially.
Then you get into impressions and how they can go either one way or another. As a choir student during my freshman year in highschool, it was common for people to express displeasure at the sound of a new song. Then as people began to learn the notes and the song, the opinions became more favorable. The impressions changed for the positive as the song became familiar.
By contrast, hearing the same song on the radio several times a day at work tends to change my impression of that song to the negative. I just get sick of it after awhile.
As for N'Sync, you're looking at social politics more than anything. They are visibly and strongly marketed as a boy band, something catered to the female population ranging from 9-15 years of age. As this is the group most commonly associated with the fan base, other people outside of that age group/gender are less likely to voice their liking of the band. In a sense, many people don't actually listen to the music, as they are turned away by the premise of being associated with that kind of fan. There is also a backlash against that type of marketing-for-music. Many people may feel that the music is "cheap" and that the band is a gimmick, again based on factors other than the music itself.
This may very well be why the Niki is so unpopular *with certain people*. In reality the Niki is a very popular plane (a lot of people fly it). That popularity itself is met with a backlash based on the reasons as to why it is so popular. Everyone is driven by competition, but there are different types.
Some prefer a competitive challenge, and so will shy away from anything that seems to 'stack the deck'. Playing against the odds is more favorable and provides more of a rush. It also provides some security in both personal satisfaction, and attempting to deny the opponent any satisfaction. For the sake of argument, a Jug pilot engages a Niki pilot and loses. The Jug pilot can know that the fight was lost due to the performance edge of the other plane, and the factor of the other pilot's skill is negligable, the Niki is 'supposed' to win. If the Jug wins, then the pilot skill of the Jug was the deciding factor because the Niki was 'supposed' to win, and the pilot skill of the Niki is still negligable or sub-par because that pilot lost an engagement to an inferior airframe.
Others prefer a competitive edge, and so will prefer whatever it is that will give them an advantage. The rush here is derived from success over failure, as they're more likely to achieve success if the odds are in their favor. If the airframe can provide those odds, that's what they will choose. There is also the opinion that, since everyone is entitled to fly whichever plane they choose, and since "pilot skill" makes the most difference in a fight, there is no reason for a person to be upset with the plane type chosen by the opposition.
These two style directly contradict each other, so it is no surprise that respect for one style is not rampantly displayed by the other. "When worlds collide" so to speak.
I'm at work, it's Friday, and I'm bored.

Offline Kratzer

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Philosophy 101: Snoop Dog Rulz
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2002, 03:28:08 PM »
N'Suck is not a band, they are a shiny plastic product, just as sure as 'Dude, Where's my Car', or those ridiculous scooters are shiny plastic products.

It's manufactured, packaged, and marketed like a new pair of capri pants from the Gap.  It is easy for people to like because it doesn't take much thought or participation.  It doesn't say anything new, either musically or lyrically, so it is familiar, easy to understand - it doesn't have too many highs, and it doesn't have too many lows - it maintains an even keel that doesn't rock the boat.  They all sing at the same time, which covers each others shortcomings so that people don't have to notice how imperfect the music is.  The backup 'band' is a Macintosh.  

Most people only want what is easy to digest because they are too lazy to care, and too afraid of being different to try anything else.  Substance and character are not products that most people want to buy, because they are products that take a personal investment, and provoke you to think differently - both musically and lyrically.  You are forced to agree, or to disagree, to feel angry, to feel sad, to feel snotty.  That's way too much of an investment for background noise.

If you look at people who listen to music that is off the beaten path, and I don't care in which genre, you will see that they also think off the beaten path about other things, and that they care more passionately about ALL things.

AH fits right into this argument, in that people who play a game like this have to invest themselves in it.  People who are looking for a simple, easy good time go and play Quake III, because it doesn't take the practice, thought, and patience of AH.

I'm glad I'm surrounded by so much substance.

Except for this n'sync lovin' chowderhead.  I'll give him, and his N1K2J (go figure) a wide berth. ;)

Offline -sudz-

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Philosophy 101: Snoop Dog Rulz
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2002, 03:54:49 PM »
Uh, before ya'll get too freaked out over the N'Sync example, I'd like to point out that I'm not really a fan of the band, but used it as an obvious contrast to illustrate the disparity between different people's likes and dislikes.

I said I was a fan to introduce some levity to the discussion, as was my intent with the Nikki's supposed unpopularity. the Wham reference, the stoning reference, and the playing as a team reference.

Continue . . .
-sudz

Offline mrfish

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Philosophy 101: Snoop Dog Rulz
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2002, 08:56:06 PM »
it has a lot to do with society still.

it reflects how you see yourself. not solely to the world, but to yourself also.

if you want to be associated with a popular archetype you will pick music that shows you as being 'file-able' under that category. even if you are only trying to convince yourself.

that's why people follow the latest thing, when it no longer serves to show them as 'up-to-the-minute-cool' it no longer serves a purpose and people discard it. burnout, but that doesnt mean that regualr burn out doesnt happen as well.

it could also mean you have already added that dimension to your persona and you are eager to mke a new statement - that music dosesnt illicit anything new about you.

people choose more complicated music to make a more complicated broad statement:

"i listen to gangster music, see how tough i am? see how acutely i twart attempts to deceive me? i am just like that player that i think is so cool, i am dabbling in various semi-legal or illegal activities and i inspire fear and respect in my enemies and awe from all women because of my obvious prowess"

" i listen to country music. see how dependable, humble and simple i am? i am just a goodhearted simple person that knows that god and one lined witticisms are the answer to life's problems. i was completely unruly and prone to fighting and drinking when i was young but now the years have made me wise and establish my rank in this heirarchy"

but that doesn't mean they don't fill in the picture more clearly with the rest of their actions. very few think any music really says it all. its just a starting place - a broad stroke.

guilty pleasures reflect the fact that we don't show the world the whole package at once. it still reflects who you want to be -

say you do really think nsynch sounds good singing as a team and being all wholesome, and you know that advertising it will get you  ostracized - that doesnt mean that  liking it isn't a reflection of who you want to be in society. these could be values you express through more accepted music. it is still ok for you to listen to that music if it's reenforcing something you want to believe about yourself.

i still believe people choose the most popular way of making those expressions. i am surprised though, that there are more bold people musically than i would expect and more people making complex statements than i would give the world credit for.

Offline Fatty

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Philosophy 101: Snoop Dog Rulz
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2002, 08:59:54 PM »
Rush.  Pre-moving pictures.

Offline Dune

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« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2002, 01:39:49 AM »
I like N'Synch=I have the taste of a chipmunk.  And I wet myself when startled.

Offline StSanta

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« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2002, 04:04:05 AM »
Gewesh fish, if that was true, who'd I be?

I'm just some psycho who thinks 90% of the world are utter and total morons, sheep blindly following their leaders, with a faith that is misplaced and intentions that aren't throught through. No, wait, that other band says I'm a humanitarian secularist who have every faith in humans and work for a levelling of the inequalities amongst humans.

No. Woooh, kick arse turn up the volume! I'm an angry punk wannabe who want to be a revolutionary!

No, screw that. This is the time for somber thought and reflection, and for nudging others into understanding what needs to be done, what is important.

Why do that, when you can have it all given to you? Screw that - life is about pleasure and getting as much of it as possible. Screw all the rest.

Man, I'd be insane if I was what I listened to :D :D

I do think MrFish has a major point, however. What he says is especially true about those sheep shagging youngsters with no brains.