A sad day in the CT...

[humble]

Can't believe I'd see 18+ players in the CT and zero action. Got one side landgrabbing in the NW...the other in the SE. Hope this isn't the coming state of afairs..the MA already is a total waste of time. I'd hate to see the CT go south also:(

[214thCavalier]

Logged into CT last night to find all 7 players were on the same team.
No prizes for guessing what they were doing.

[Lephturn]

I think we need to make base capture much more difficult in the CT.  Personally, I'd just as soon toejamcan base capture totally, but I know there are some that like to play that game.  Maybe if we make it so that it takes a bunch of folks working together to capture a base, it would slow down the whole milk-running aspect.

Thoughts?  Complaining about it isn't getting us anywhere...  lets think about some solutions.

Lephturn

[humble]

I'm not sure I'm really complaining as much as venting....back when I first flew in the beta I was in heaven.  Everyone was better than me and everyone was focused on A to A.

Yes I had to contend with Fariz and his 109

But still, at least I would spawn climb on out of ack and get bounced again. I learned alot and had fun. Up till recently the CT was a nice step back to "the good old days". I still whine a bit...had a gaggle of jugs kept interupting/gangbanging my poor little ki/205...but can't argue the fact that they flew well and fought what they found.

Truthfully, I'd love to see an arena with nothing but air to air stuff.

[Oldman731]

Originally posted by humble
Truthfully, I'd love to see an arena with nothing but air to air stuff.

Me, too.  I always thought that's what these air combat games were about.

However:

The fact is that, for whatever reasons - and I'll hold open the vague possibility that there may be some good ones - many people aren't interested in air-to-air combat but are willing to come into the arena to be targets for those of us who are.  Experience in AW was that the proportion of these people increased as the player base grew younger and more distant from the game's beginnings.  I imagine that you lifer AH guys are observing similar changes here and now.

Point is that CT won't be a raging success unless we can get the numbers up.  The numbers won't go up if the landgrab types are stymied - in fact, the previous posts in this thread indicate that the landgrabbers are often the only ones in the arena.  Hey, more targets for the rest of us.

I think that may be the nicest thing I ever wrote about landgrabbers.  Must be another function of the aging process.

- Oldman

[kidcol]

OK, here's my thoughts, for what they're worth.

I fly CT almost exclusively these day, often off-peak hours (when there aren't exactly alot of people in there). If I come in & no one is there I will, yes, either go smack a buncha stuff at an NME base just for fun or, even, just smack dwn ack, ditch & grab a goon (i.e. milkrunning). I won't get more than one & if I do, I will usually then switch to other side, & jabo it, grabbing it back, till someone shows to fight. MA bores the poop outta me & I'd really prefer to stay flying CT the majority of my time. As far as the incident that was the impetus for this thread, I was there & flying axis at the time. It was a strange event in that allies could see what we were up to & we could see them doing same across the map. Both chose to ignore the other, what can I say....

Making the bases tougher may be a good solution, would just weed out hardcore milkrunners while keeping a strat element to the arena. But removing base capture entirely I think is not good. It would just turn the CT into a H2H FFA, IMHO.

kid

[humble]

kid,

That was the most unusual single event I've ever seen in AH...both sides ignoring each other completely. Whats funny is alot of the folks flying were very good pilots....certainly wasn't a lack of ability in that aspect of the game.

I don't want this to be perceived as a slight to anyone who happened to be flying at the time. I understand and applaud the concept of the "combined arms" however the reality is falling well short of the concept (IMO).

[Arfann]

Fun is where you find it.  Nothing is quite as satisfying as shooting milk-runners. When I log in to find one, or even several just milk running, I figger out where they at an' go kill 'em. If the lemming are furballing, I can usually catch someone sneaking a field away from the crowd. Hunt 'em, kill 'em, then join the party.

GronK

[Wotan]

Field capture entices the milkrunners it should be imho gotten rid off or made extremely hard (30 sec rebuild times on structures).

You really cant stop it unless you stop field capture. Its a real Shame because when the fight is on in the CT its a hell of a lot of fun.

My suggestion get rid of field capture or up the down time for structures.

But I have made that suggestion before and nobody went for it.

With the new set up this saturday.

[AKDejaVu]

Field capture is the most gamey aspect of AH... by far and away.  I can understand the need for it in the MA... but I've always maintained it should not be a part of the CT.

The trouble is... there isn't really any other tangeable stategic goal in AH right now.

Its hard to argue with that.

AKDejaVu

[Creamo]

From what I can see, the CT needlessly adopts the MA strat, which doesn’t work, nor should it.

Why change icons, aircraft plane sets, and then rely on the MA strat for a completely different setup? Your knocking heads on how to adapt a historic match with a 3 country MA specific, if not dated strat. Silly, yet it’s the basis for implementing the entire CT layout.

The CT should have major point targets for bombing, (fuel tanks, industry, no capture) and auto limiting respawn points for aircraft so that they do what they did in real life. Take off and intercept/fight/whatnot from a given location where fighters were available. BOB comes to mind. What, are you going to capture London?

As it is, just call it the CT, “Carrier Training” as once they move the CV’s in close, all player’s fight off a carrier to the closest furball when they normally use bases in the MA for the same thing.

Who’s ever in charge is blind. It’s just a very small furball in a short icon arena, with limited plane matchups.

HTH is better, and faster, although at a smaller scale.

Personally, why fly further as your HQ is attacked unopposed?

[Sunchaser]

Well, as a strat player who intends to use the CT when I get back from the Eastern Front, if it is still an option, I will toss my 2 cents into the pot.

The CT should not be about territory capture unless the campaign
 is based on movement of front lines and they should never be based on same, the setups run for too short a time.

It should be about causing destruction  to the other sides stuff and creating mayhem in their territory.

As far as INDIVIDUAL scores are concerned....you land, you get points.

As far as SIDE scores are concerned, if there is a feasible way to keep track of planes lost and infrastructure destroyed perhaps the WINNER of a setup could be determined using these figures.

So, using that formula, if I go bomb a factory and land, I get points, if I die I get none but my SIDE gets points based on the destruction I caused, same with fighters, they land they score, they shoot 2 guys down and die they get none but their SIDE does.

I personally think that the first thing that must be left at the door of the CT is EGO, the "I must be the top dog" mentality that prevails in online games.

The second is "I pay therefore I get to fly any plane I want"

In the upcoming BOB there should be no capture at all, that was simply a battle of attrition and should be played as such.

CVs had no impact and should not be used at all.

There will never be total satisfation with a given setup, someone will be left without their favorite plane or ship or GV.

We must not attempt to appease all with the CT, if my plane is not there I will go fly what is there or not, simple.

The very nature of the CT denies someone something and the numbers will increase only with a change of mindset of individual players.

I see the CT as a Mini Scenario but open 24/7 to all and suggest first, drop ALL scoring....that will surely not ever happen, we just gotta have scores to look at and impress others with and second,
score only LANDED and/or SIDE points for determination of the WINNER.

No capture denies C47 and M3 guys options but they can do resupply missions to repair the damage caused by the enemy.

Certain setups deny CV use....tough!

I see complaints about the high numbers in the Main causing problems but the option to just go fly in the CT is not exercised so what conclusions can HTC draw?

1. We whine because we can even if there are other options.

BTW, even though I am no longer a paying member I applaude the efforts of the CT team and wish you success.

edit: BTW, Creamo, I saw you or an imposter using your callsign flash through Hyperlobby last night, was it you and if so how much will you pay me not to rat on ya for that indiscretion?

If it was you next time say hi and come fly with us, OK?

[Lephturn]

I must say, I very much like the idea that the start portion of the CT be not focussed on base capture, but on destruction of enemy resources/targets.  While I'm not one for playing the land-grab game or even flying bombers, I certainly do like running escort for a BUFF raid, especially in a historical plane matchup setting.

I will caution however that you need to be careful to have enough freedom from the overall stategic system that guys like me with not alot of time can log in for an hour and just go A2A hunting if I like.  That means I need some form of radar and a decent plane choice to be available at all times.  Other than that, I think this sort of things is a great idea.  The A2G folks can spend time blowing toejam up, the A2A guys can intercept them or fight amongst themselves.  The reward for the A2G crowd can be helping to "win the war" and things like perk points, without the need to restrict the other side too much as a result.

Hey mapping type guys... is this feasable?

[hblair]

Originally posted by Creamo
From what I can see, the CT needlessly adopts the MA strat, which doesn’t work, nor should it.

Why change icons, aircraft plane sets, and then rely on the MA strat for a completely different setup? Your knocking heads on how to adapt a historic match with a 3 country MA specific, if not dated strat. Silly, yet it’s the basis for implementing the entire CT layout.

The CT should have major point targets for bombing, (fuel tanks, industry, no capture) and auto limiting respawn points for aircraft so that they do what they did in real life. Take off and intercept/fight/whatnot from a given location where fighters were available. BOB comes to mind. What, are you going to capture London?

As it is, just call it the CT, “Carrier Training” as once they move the CV’s in close, all player’s fight off a carrier to the closest furball when they normally use bases in the MA for the same thing.

Who’s ever in charge is blind. It’s just a very small furball in a short icon arena, with limited plane matchups.

HTH is better, and faster, although at a smaller scale.

Personally, why fly further as your HQ is attacked unopposed?

Well, that all sounds good but in order to have anyone flying there you have to give everybody something to do. Some people like to capture fields. Capturing fields is actually essential to keeping the arena fresh as the front is allowed to be fluid, moving around the arena. You don't up from the same 2-3 fields and furball in the same part of the map. Do you remember the CT sitting empty for 2 months? That was during a time when field capture was disabled.

Now, as far as a BoB setup, I can see turning capture off, but as for most of the rest of them, like the full planeset deal, that is meant to be a 2-sided main arena.

[Furious]

Set the down time such that if a field is not hit and captured within 2-3 minutes it all rebuilds.

This, I think, would discourage milk-running.  It would require groups of pilots to capture, not just 1 or 2.



Folks need to feel like the are winning.  Is there some way to take the logs, extract information, apply some scoring rules and then automatically have it posted to the opening message?  


F.