Assist my *ss! :mad:

[Lephturn]

Folks... define "no longer flyable".  Think about how you would try to code that.  Show me the logic.  I'm not saying you can't do that, all I'm pointing out is that it's not as simple as it seems to make a better system that is reasonable to implement.

What we have now is simple and elegant, even if you don't always like the results.  Regardless of what you would prefer to happen, if it's much more complex, a bunch of new code, and HTC's valuable resources to change it, you can see why the current system might be preferable.  Now lets think about "credit to the guy that makes it unflyable".  Lets say removing a wing or 3 or more flight surfaces is the rule you choose as "unflyable".  Or killing an engine.  So you attack an ME110 with your Spit 1 with it's pitiful .303's.  You rake the enemy plane with fire, shooting off an ael and his rudder, and doing 95% of the damage required to break both wings, the rest of the flight surfaces, and the entire fuselage.  Now I come blasting in with my Jug and with a quick burst, I put the icing on the cake and actually explode the plane.  You did 95% of the damage required to explode it, but because I damaged him last, I get the kill.  Now you have a system where everybody shoots at once, because the last bullet that hits "something critical" and destroys it, the fellow who fired that gets credit.  Sorry, but that doesn't sound like a better solution to me.  Now the fellow in the Spit 1 who worked his bellybutton off and spent 1/2 his ammo load doesn't get credit.  On the flip side, the .303's would be great for being "the straw the broke the camel's back", so that might make the Spit 1 a kill-stealing machine.

No matter what system we use, it will be a compromise that will allow "kill stealing" in some form.  Show me a system that doesn't, but I can't think of one.  The current compromise is, IMO, the only reasonable way to do it I've seen thus far.  Sure, there might be ways to improve it, but this is a simple problem that has been around a long time.  I think HT has a pretty good handle on it.  Has it been done better in any other online flight sim?

In addition, I laugh at the kill stealers.  They are the dumb ones, because when the next bogie comes along they are on the deck and easy meat.  Sure, you might only get an assist... then you get to watch as the enemy dives on the guy that stole it from you and laugh at his pitiful cries for help.  Dive in on the guy attacking him, but make sure you don't kill him until he shoots down the killstealer!  

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Lephturn
Folks... define "no longer flyable".  Think about how you would try to code that.  Show me the logic.  I'm not saying you can't do that, all I'm pointing out is that it's not as simple as it seems to make a better system that is reasonable to implement.

What we have now is simple and elegant, even if you don't always like the results.  Regardless of what you would prefer to happen, if it's much more complex, a bunch of new code, and HTC's valuable resources to change it, you can see why the current system might be preferable.  Now lets think about "credit to the guy that makes it unflyable".  Lets say removing a wing or 3 or more flight surfaces is the rule you choose as "unflyable".  Or killing an engine.  So you attack an ME110 with your Spit 1 with it's pitiful .303's.  You rake the enemy plane with fire, shooting off an ael and his rudder, and doing 95% of the damage required to break both wings, the rest of the flight surfaces, and the entire fuselage.  Now I come blasting in with my Jug and with a quick burst, I put the icing on the cake and actually explode the plane.  You did 95% of the damage required to explode it, but because I damaged him last, I get the kill.  Now you have a system where everybody shoots at once, because the last bullet that hits "something critical" and destroys it, the fellow who fired that gets credit.  Sorry, but that doesn't sound like a better solution to me.  Now the fellow in the Spit 1 who worked his bellybutton off and spent 1/2 his ammo load doesn't get credit.  On the flip side, the .303's would be great for being "the straw the broke the camel's back", so that might make the Spit 1 a kill-stealing machine.

No matter what system we use, it will be a compromise that will allow "kill stealing" in some form.  Show me a system that doesn't, but I can't think of one.  The current compromise is, IMO, the only reasonable way to do it I've seen thus far.  Sure, there might be ways to improve it, but this is a simple problem that has been around a long time.  I think HT has a pretty good handle on it.  Has it been done better in any other online flight sim?

In addition, I laugh at the kill stealers.  They are the dumb ones, because when the next bogie comes along they are on the deck and easy meat.  Sure, you might only get an assist... then you get to watch as the enemy dives on the guy that stole it from you and laugh at his pitiful cries for help.  Dive in on the guy attacking him, but make sure you don't kill him until he shoots down the killstealer!  

Here's my thoughts.

Simple solution: 0.5 kills to the Spitfire I, 0.5 kills to you. Everyone gets something. The loss of a wing or tail is sufficient to define "unflyable". All others get resolved by an evenly divided percentage. Obviously, blowing up is conclusive.  

My regards,

Widewing

[AKEagle+]

C'mon lads, take some Valium or pop a Prozsac, or go see your therapist.  Or maybe just grow up.

Sheesh!

You can't code a standard of conduct!  

Let me repeat that!  This is an shocker for some of you, but… YOU cannot code standards of conduct.

Man the MA is a Arcade first person Shoot'em up with a WWII airplane/gv theme.  People are gonna steal your kills, and guess what??? You may actually steal someone elses' kill!  You only know what goes on at your front end.  The other guy may have actually been closer to the bogey than you on his FE.

The MA is gang-banging, HO's, deliberate rams, kill shooter, kill stealing, Laser-guided Buff bombing and furballing and a lot of other fun things (Eagles eyes glaze over as he starts to drool).  

We could code a better perk system…  but that is a dead horse.  The 110 is gonna be very prevalent in the MA once people realize what a mean momma that puppy is.  But it won't get perked because it ain't blue, it ain't American, it ain't a fat slow Corsair once it loses speed.  And besides, it IS LW iron.

Once people see how deadly that 110 is for jabo, and HO's watch out lads, the arena is just gonna get meaner   And I say let it, stop the whining, grow up, grow a pair, and lets dance!

AKEagle+

[AKDejaVu]

Ah.. yet another concern that can simply be avoided by adjusting your flying/fighting style.

If you are going for the max kill/sortie.. you run the risk of allowing a somewhat crippled plane the opportunity to be stolen.  To avoid that... damage it more.  If its a matter of too many people being in one area... then I feel absolutely no pitty.  You and you alone control the location of your aircraft.  I guarantee you can find an area where things would be drastically different.

I flew the P-51B for a tour... and experienced nothing as severe as mentioned in the initial troll.  I know I'm not that great of a pilot... so what could the difference have been?

Hmmmm.

AKDejaVu

[hblair]

I think the scoring is fine as-is.

[NUTTZ]

I have no problem killing Nath and DMF, they usually tangle their props into my chute and i take em with me:)


NUTTZ

[MrLars]

Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6,

Squelched? have your squaddies do it...

Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6, Check 6,

Then when he's in trouble...NOTHING  

[SKurj]

If I take the tailplane off the enemy aircraft I have done all the lethal damage needed.  It should be a kill right then and there(the announcement can be delayed until it hits the ground or pilot bails) and NO MORE damage even considered into the equation.


The first damage inflicted that makes the aircraft unflyable should be all thats recorded and scored.
Engine damage, missing control surfaces, pilot wounds should not be considered unflyable.


ANyone else wants to shoot it fine, but no assist or credit is given.

Thats how it should work +)
but i can live with the current setup


SKurj

[eskimo2]

Skurj,

Imagine that I spawn at a vulched field and someone inflicts "fatal damage" to my AC, I.E. wing or tail blown off.  But in reality I can taxi around and spray lead all over.  Or maybe even taxi over to the maproom and camp out for troops.

The best solution is for everyone to just get over it.

Sure, I get mad for about 5 seconds after I get an assist when I thought it should have been a kill.  But I get a lot of freebies too.
Many times I have done a lot of damage to an enemy plane from my slow A6M or 109F, and they are getting away.  Someone else finishes them off and I get the kill.  Without their help, I would have gotten squat.

eskimo

[Blue Mako]

Life according to me:

Dont like assists?  Fly a cannon armed plane.

Fly an mg armed plane?  Don't just take parts off, blow your enemy up.

Don't want to do either?  Then live with it and quit whining about assists.

[BNM]

> hitech:: The kill logic is very simple, he who puts the most lethality into a plane gets the kill. <

This is the way it should be.

> ripsnort:: Assists should be rewarded something like .25 perks or something along that line. Right now, you get squat. <

While I couldn't care less about 'perk points', for those that do an 'assist' should count for partial 'perk points'

- IAmBNM

[Widewing]

Originally posted by NUTTZ
I have no problem killing Nath and DMF, they usually tangle their props into my chute and i take em with me:)


NUTTZ

Heh, got them both again tonight. I must be livin' right. To be fair, Nath's P-38 was out of gas. However, he was still out-turning just about everyone deadstick! It was like watching the great Bob Hoover do his engines-off aerobatic display. Nath is a character. Despite having two dead engines, he's still trying to kill everything in sight. Give him an A for effort, at least. But, when his E was gone.. Well, I wasn't going to let him ditch.

My regards,

Widewing

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by Widewing
Heh, got them both again tonight.

The late 190 really helped.  I didn't want to rev on a Zeke that was, by my view, 800 yards back.  There was no way a Spit V was going to cut off enough angles against a reasonable Zeke pilot when reversing at that range.  My plan was to extend to about 1.4k out and then rev back to you, but the incredibly aggressive 190 forced me to turn back.  Not much I could do at that point... out of angles and out of speed from having to turn it.  C'est la vie.  

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Fariz]

Originally posted by Blue Mako
Life according to me:

Dont like assists?  Fly a cannon armed plane.

Fly an mg armed plane?  Don't just take parts off, blow your enemy up.

Don't want to do either?  Then live with it and quit whining about assists.

I fly cannon armed plane, YakU, and quite often hit what I fire at. But still get zillion of assists

But yes, this system works fine. Only thing which upset me sometime is when I spend some time to turn the table and get solution on some enemy, put his tail off, and here comes some crazy-all-guns-firing-newbie and steal it

Fariz

[stegor]

We are wasting time and words; its not a matter of points, half kills, etc its only thatwe have in AH some professional Kill-stealers
Since someone pays 14,95 $ for the satisfaction  of a K/D almost completely made by stolen Kills, there's nothing we can do.