FW190a8 is modeled incorrectly.........

[hazed-]

vermillion I didnt think the above list refered to the aircraft under full wep and your film wouldnt download said corrupted file so i did another quick test using wep until it ran out and mine still never got above 449mph (red indicator never quite covered the 350 mph marker which converts to 563.15 kmph) which is at least a lot closer to the 571km/h stated in the book.


Redid the tests this time with full wep in AH offline this time with full 100% fuel:

climb to 19,685ft 9 minutes 44 seconds
climb to 26,250ft 15 minutes 30 seconds
climb to 32,800ft gave up after 25 minutes was at 31,000ft but climbrate less than 400ft/min.

then i dived to over 450mph leveled at following alts, applied full wep until gauge stopped moving

top speeds this time under wep:

20,675ft 402mph
18,045ft 399mph
sea level 350mph(maybe touch over) by this time i had 75% fuel aft left btw

so top speed is not as bad as i at first thought it was (if top speed stated in book means with wep engaged?)

seems top speed is quite close but still lower and look at the difference in climb time to 32,800ft! it was supposed to be at 32,800 by 19.3 minutes.

Is it possible the fact im climbing on auto pilot makes a difference?
and such a large one? over the years flying AH 190 ive found reducing speed makes little if any difference but once around 25-30k is there a way to increase climb time by 5 minutes by going faster or slower on climb? seems unlikely.
or is it this is indeed a GM1 fitted 190a8 and then if this is the case why on earth didnt AH get the GM1 version?

another thing I'd like to know is how is time taken to get to top speeds under acceleration (wep or non wep) calculated? do HTC also use charts?

[Vermillion]

Take a look at those charts and you will see that the shaded portion under the curve, is basically WEP if you read the discriptions.  The non-WEP max speed is 338mph if I'm reading the chart right (my vision is somewhat blurry due to recent multiple eye surgies, and the later in the day it gets, the more tired my eyes get).  You can test against that value if you wish.

In most every case when looking at aircraft data, max speed means just that, the maximum speed an aircraft under its fastest condition. But as with anything there are exceptions.

I just looked at my chart again, and it reads that the max speed should be 350mph, not the 355 I typed in earlier, I misread the the charts fine lines.  Sorry for the mistake.

On my FE the red tick mark is just starting to edge over the 350mph mark. In other words the red line's center is directly on the 350mph mark, while its leading edge is past the 350mph mark.   It may differ very slightly from video card to video card, and resolution to resolution, but I don't know for sure. But I do know that HTC uses a version of the FE that has a digital readout to test the FM's.

Regardless, its very very close on my computer.

The charts I posted are basically data directly from Focke-Wulf provided to the Luftwaffe high command (but translated too english after the war for this english translation).  I have no idea how Brown or others got their data, but I've seen other similar data charts originally from Focke-Wulf, so I tend personally to put my faith in them rather than from other sources.  Unless someone has the original charts in German, and they show something different, I would tend to think its about the best source of data you can reasonabley get.

[MiloMorai]

Each horizontal hash/grid line is 4 kph. The first speed line on the left (#3)  is for 2300rpm engine speed, #2 is 2400rpm, #1 is for 2700rpm. Shaded area is with 1.58/1.65ata boost.

Each vertical hash/grid line is 100m.

At the top is explaination of #1, 2, 3. ie. max. endurance cruise - 2300rpm - 1.20ata

[hazed-]

vermillion have you got this sort of data for all AH planes? and have you tested them all?

I kinda got the bug now lol

to recap AH 190a8 top speeds:

20,675ft  : 399-400mph (642km/h) +WEP 402mph (647km/h)
18,045ft  :385-390mph (627km/h) +WEP 399mph (642km/h)
sea level : 325-330mph (531km/h) +WEP 350mph (563km/h)

SW as you can see maybe your book refers to non wep top speed and mine refers to with wep? (with errors?) how weird.

[Vermillion]

Not all of them Hazed, but quite a few of them.

I have pilots manuals or flight tests for pretty much all of the American planes, and I have alot of stuff for the German planes (all the 190's I think, the ta152, and either the E or F 109).  But its really hard to find hard data on Soviet, Japanese, and Italian aircraft.

Which aircraft are you interested in, in particular?

[fdiron]

Or perhaps the Germans who tested these planes 'modified' the test results so that when the Allies captured them they would need them to maintain the planes.

[hazed-]

verm P38L P47d25 NIKj P40 Tempest Typhoon B17 Lancaster ? any really but i guess the P47 would be cool to test as i really dont 'know' its AH abilities much and would help to learn them as i test.

I have a very similar specs list in this book for :

focke wulf 200-c3/U4 condor
Hienkel HE 162-A2
JU 87-D1
Do 217-M1
HE 177-A5
ME 262-A1a
Do 335-A0
Focke wulf 190-A8
Ta 152-H1
Arado AR 234-B2
Ju88-G7b
FW 189-A2
Heinkel He111-H16
JU52/3M- G7e
Heinkel HE 219-A7/R2
BF 109-G6
BF 110-G4c/R3
ME 163-B1a(time to 39,370ft 3.35 min!!!! max powered endurance 7 minutes)

ill type some out if you request them.

[Vermillion]

I've got the P47s pilot manual, the P38 pilots manual, and there is a ton of data in America's Hundred Thousand on all the US fighters( this is THE book on American fighters if your looking for a good book, its well worth the money).  Funked or Karnak both have alot of data on British planes, so they probably have the Typhoon and Lancaster data (I may have something on the Typhoon that someone posted on AGW but I need to look).

Hard data on the N1K2-J is extremely hard to get and something I have been searching for, for a very long time. From what I can find, from the data searchs in the US Archives, I've been told that flight test data on the N1K2 dont' exist anymore.  But I'm still looking.

The data I posted on the Fw190A8 is with WEP as I explained, and its straight from the Focke Wulf factory.  Not sure where the data in your book came from, or how it was collected.

[hazed-]

Verm about the 190a8,  if you use your chart what would be the climb time to 32,800 feet?

and would it be less than the 25 minutes+ it takes in AH?
as mentioned in my book it should be around 19 minutes which is a huge difference I think you'll agree.
maybe its modeled with a touch too little power and maybe acceleration also is a little less than it should be as it seems to take ages to get up to speed without a dive.As im no expert I dont know if this is how it should be but with your charts and info is it possible to work out what these values should be?

[BigCrate]

Hazed I hate to say this but HTC doesn't care about the data we players find..  Just take a look at the P-38 and its dive flaps. Any book written about the P-38 said the dive flaps stopped buffeting and restored pitch control. HTC doesn't give rats bellybutton about the P-38.. Why I don't know it should be one of the best planes in AH but it is not .. Players in  MA all they want to fly are the easy planes (ie spits niks etc.) Very few people (say less than 15% of all players in the MA) fly the planes that take skills and knowing of ACM.. Thats why I think there needs to be a RR arena and FR areana.. The RR areana keeps all the dweebs in there and FR areana has the people that want to fight with ACM and be proud of the skills it takes to fly the plane they fly. And HTC could care less if we find data thats shows if a plane was mismodeled.. If they didn't find it they don't want it. Hazed I would just quite while your ahead. Cause no one from HTC is listening.

This is just what I think and shouldn't be taking to heart.. Cause if it is something I learned in my life. That there is nothing really worth getting pissed off about. I'm just a simple hillbilly and shouldn't be listened to.

Cw
=Twin Engined Devils=

[hitech]

BigCrate, it couln't be we just disagree with you and get realy sick of reposting the same stuff.  

Now BigCrate if I ever see a flame of our integrity by you again you will no longer be on this board.

[Nath[BDP]]

P-38 takes skill? Since when?

I have been flying it, the thing is uber. The only problem is see is how weak the guns are. And how with the upgraded damage model (which should have been left the way it was), it's even more deadly.

The thing is unbeatable in the vertical with flaps, other planes can hardly rope it even if you start out Co-E. It can outturn most any plane except the usually TnBers (spits, zekes, etc), but it has to be a half decent pilot in the TnBer to win. It also excels at bleeding E to force overshoots, which is another nice plus to fit my flying style.

[Mitsu]

...I agreed with you Nath...
P-38 no longer be poor plane.
also its fuselage guns provide enough firepower if you have good shooting.

-Mitsu

[BigCrate]

Hmmmmm Hitech its fine if ya disagree hell i don't care about that.. I'm just simple man. I post the same over and over again
because the or at least thats what I think are wrong.. Widewing
even said they were.. (Sorry widewing don't want to bring you into this.) Tac has done repeated posts on how the dive flaps should work.. Alot of people have posted stuff how the dive flaps should and said they need to be redone.. Now we can't be all wrong can we?? I don't know.. Hitech I didn't mean to light a fire under ya. And I'm sorry for doing so.

When I was talking about having skills to fly certain planes I was talking about the LW planes.. Cause they are mostly E fighters and thats is the hardest form of ACM.. As for the 38 I suck so to me it takes a special touch to fly. I havn't found yet.

Cw
=Twin Engined Devils=

[Manedew]

P38 Is a great plane thing makes E like a factory, and damage model is better now (not many other planes in ah would take one ping to loose a stab) ;It's harder than zeke weaker than a hellcat ... like most planes.  Gun's are strong too I kill often on snapshots and almost always get some damage.
Oh ya and compression is a myth thought up by axis dweebs .  

The dive flaps they do nothing for me at this point, tho i feel like they should give you some of the feel on the frist  notch of p51s flaps; and i don't get that so i don't use em';but in the end the plane isn't 'easy' to fly unless you know what your about.

On the 190 I remember about a year back when HTC fixed the Tiffie we had  some nice links to an 'offical' website that had rollrate ;proved to me that the tiffie was right now (even though it won't level in auto with 1 1ker on board)    Anyway does anyone recall this site? maybe only had rollrates tho.
-ManeTMP
=Twin Engined Devils=