Author Topic: HTC, can we change scoring?  (Read 1031 times)

Offline Wotan

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HTC, can we change scoring?
« Reply #30 on: March 23, 2002, 08:40:02 PM »
ammo I have made several long post over the past 2 months on scoring here in the General Discusion and In the Gameplay forums.

I dont feel like rehashing it here.

How  ever you should be able to get a good idea on the AH help files

Heres a quick explanation

overall there are 4 categories that determin overall rank

Fighter
attack
Bombers
Ground vehicles

Fighter say u rank 1
attack 1
Bombers 100
Ground vehicles 1

1 + 1 + 100 + 1 = 103

Fighter I rank 25
attack 25
Bombers 25
Ground vehicles 25

25 + 25 + 25 + 25 = 100

100 is lower then 103 therefore I would rank overall higher..squad rank works the same.

if 100 is lower then everyone I would rank 1st if its higher then everyone 1 would be last etc......

There are 10 sub categories:

Air Categories

Kills per Death
Kills per Sortie
Kills per Time
Hit percentage
Air points

Ground Categories

Damage per Death
Damage per Sortie
Bombing percentage
Ground points
Field captures

In determining fighter rank only the air categories are used

In determining bomber rank only the ground categories are used

In determining attack and gv rank only the all 10 categories are used.

Heres how you get scored for each sortie:

Formulas

Air Categories
 
Kills per Death = TotalKills / ((Discos * 0.5) + Bails + Captures + Deaths + 1)
Kills per Sortie = TotalKills / TotalTourSorties
Kills per Time = TotalKills / TotalTourSortieTime
Hit percentage = TotalTourBulletsHit / TotalTourBulletsUsed
Air points = PlaneDamageScore + KillScore

Ground Categories

Damage per Death = TotalDamage / ((Discos * 0.5) + Bails + Captures + Deaths + 1)
Damage per Sortie = TotalDamage / TotalTourSorties
Bombing percentage =
(TotalTourBombsHit + TotalTourRocketsHit + TotalTourTorpedosHit) /
(TotalTourBombsUsed + TotalTourRocketsUsed + TotalTourTorpedosUsed)
Ground points =
(DamagePointsScoredOnObjectsTh isSortie * DeathMult) +
TotalTourDamagePointsScoredOn Objects +
(DestroyedPointsScoredOnObject sThisSortie * DeathMult) +
TotalTourDestroyedPointsScore dOnObjects
Field captures = FieldCapturesThisSortie + TotalTourFieldCaptures
 
TotalKills are just air-to-air kills for fighter missions, air-to-air + air-to-ground kills for all other mission types.
 
PlaneDamageScore =
(DamagePointsScoredOnEnemiesTh isSortie * DeathMult) +
TotalTourPlaneDamageScoredOnE nemies
 
KillScore =
((AirKillsThisSortie * 1.0) + (AirAssistsThisSortie * 0.25) +
(GroundKillsThisSortie * 1.0) + (GroundAssistsThisSortie * 0.25) * DeathMult) +
TotalTourKillScore
 
TotalDamage =
(DamagePointsScoredOnObjectsTh isSortie * DeathMult) +
TotalTourDamagePointsScoredOn Objects +
(DestroyedPointsScoredOnObject sThisSortie * DeathMult) +
TotalTourDestroyedPointsScore dOnObjects
 
Death Multipliers (these do not effect perk points at all)
 
Landed 1.0
Discoed 0.25
Bailed 0.5
Ditched 0.75
Captured 0.4
Killed 0.25
Crashed 0.25

Air Categories

Kills per Death
Kills per Sortie
Kills per Time
Hit percentage
Air points

Ground Categories

Damage per Death
Damage per Sortie
Bombing percentage
Ground points
Field captures

Just like total rank in each 1 of these sub categories you will "ranked". Add them all up and if you are the lowest you rank 1st.

Offline Wotan

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HTC, can we change scoring?
« Reply #31 on: March 23, 2002, 08:53:33 PM »
and midnight I saw your point but imho it really doesn't matter hit percentage get scored no matter what "mode" your in. The kills get "scored" , not in determining fighter rank (which I agree they should not). You are not at a greater disadvantage then anyone else. Your rank doesn't suffer anymore then anyone else.

I kill gvs in fighter mode when its necessary. Alot of other folks do as well.

The scoring we have is a great one imho. Ofcourse it can be gamed any system can be. As eskimo says most on the board claim not to care anything about rank. But the system we have lets you track everything imaginable and in that sense its a great tool.

Simply ranking by k/d doesn't give a good view of whats going on. I can simply vulch and my k/d will be way hi or stay at 30k and bounce buffs or just hunt m3s. Now the guy who ups enters the melee or the ground pounders the do the deacking and jabo work get left out.

Anyway HT has said he likes it like it is and I agree.

Offline Voss

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HTC, can we change scoring?
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2002, 09:30:26 PM »
From my time online I learned that living does not matter one hoot! There are two categories that absolutely must be kept high: Kills/time, and gunnery.

In fighters the fastest way is the best. A short flight to a field and high kill count will get you in the top ranks the fastest. Don't waste ammo, and don't hesitate to shoot at buffs. Buffs are big and hard to miss, so your gunnery will improve by attacking them. Again, though, you have to consider time. The best place to catch a buff, of course, is on the ground. Don't waste time flying home, if it's along flight.

In attack, the best way to peak your score is attacking assets. In particular, grunt training is the best target. Carry some 1k eggs and drop them right in the middle of the tents. That will guarantee a high damage/egg count (the best actually). If you're very carefull you can attack grunt training from just 1k and knock all of the defenses in two, or three passes. Then, you're free to egg the tents and gun anything left. Don't miss, as you're score will suffer. You still have to have a high kill/sortie, even in attack. So, there's a fine balance of attack against assets and attack against enemies that you'll have to work out. Personally, I like the Tiffy with rockets against PT boats, but your mileage will no doubt be better.

In buffs you should egg grunt training. I've found that the 4k egg of the Lancaster *can* destroy up to fifteen tents. Usually it will take down twelve to thirteen, but you have to put it in the middle of a tent group. Some guys use the 2k eggs, and wipe out all of the tents in two passes. Your hit/egg count will be higher with the 4k egg. Multiple sorties with the 4k egg only (hold the others for rtb) and a  rearm will help.

With GV's don't bother with long sorties to attack assets. There is something about GV's and damage/sortie that AGJVV, or AKLarry can probably help you more with. I prefer killing other GV's, and using the FLAK against aircraft. The classic best way is to wait at a VH, until an enemy attacks, and then launch at the very last second to blast him out of the air.

Ships don't matter, but effective use of the PT does.

I hope that helps.

Remember, don't kill Voss! Your score will suffer. :D

Offline Voss

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HTC, can we change scoring?
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2002, 09:36:30 PM »
In the discussion about attack (above) I really meant kills/time, rather than kills/sortie.

Offline WBHoncho

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HTC, can we change scoring?
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2002, 10:23:29 PM »
There seems less emphasis on surviving in this game.  Here if you "kill" someone, it may only mean they hit the ground before you did.

I also agree it is strange anyone should get perks for dying.

Both of these things encourage, and even reward, strange behavior (HO's for example, death dives on CV's etc etc.)

(edit to include this to the "strange behavior" category...  I chased 2 buffs tonight that were on HQ runs only to have them drop eggs then bail.  Should they be rewarded with perks?)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2002, 11:28:55 PM by WBHoncho »

Offline Wotan

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HTC, can we change scoring?
« Reply #35 on: March 23, 2002, 11:09:57 PM »
fighters

well k/d doesnt matter as much because the huge disparity at the top compared to the button.....

k/t is a very tight category a .20 and a .18 maybe 200 points apart.

Same with hit percentage its a tight category.

basically kill and kill fast and do it efficently is the best way to achieve fighter rank.


buffs

as fer training facility you can get a btter buff rank by using 6 2000k bombs. Dont even use the 3 500s. you can wipe out all 3 blocks of tents. and maintain a very hi hit percentage. Kills and deaths in buffs dont matter a bit except if you get shot dwn with a full load of bombs then they (i think) are counted against your hit percentage.

Its alway better for rank to rtb then ditch your ord or die without dropping ord on target.

Attack

same with buffs you wanna kill the most structures with the least bombs.

then revert to fighter mode kill kill fast kill efficently

190a8 fer example take 1 500kg drop on a fh / vh whatever then finish off by strafing. 1 bomb 1 structure ded hit perctage goes up because all the ammo expanded on the ez to hit fh/vh whatever.

Now a p38 or jug has much more ord. But take a p47d30 for instance 2 x 1000 1x 500 all three dropped on a fh kills it. But you used 3 bombs to 1 structure.

the 190a8 will have a better attack score for his sortie compared to the d30. the d30 can cause more damage per sortie say a a twn or a factory but most attack fhs.

vh/fh/bh are not good rank targets. the towns cities and factories are. Dunno if this is bye design but if the dedicated buffers every figure we actually have a strat model that is to their benefit to exploit we would get less of fh killing, fight spoiling, buff dweebs.

GVs

you need air kills / gv kills but you need to kill structures as well. again the towns cities factories are better target for rank then air bases.

you need field captures as well you wanna fire some pt rockets into a twn or factory or hit the tf with torps.

Again I have written intensively about rank in several threads even providing pictures. On our squad bbs I have went into great detail.

But overall the way to success is through finding some fun.

Read the help pages they will tell you everything you need to know.

Also resupply is better for rank because you can hit the target over and over......

All the fluffers who constantly whine about "strat" and how buffs arent appreciated etc is pure bs. They dont know wtf their doing and they get no sympathy from me.

Remember jabo/bomb/gv the twn leave field suppression to the fighters. leave the fhs up so they can vulch and work on targets that not only benefit you but your country mates as well.

The worst sin you can commit against you country mates is to kill the fhs where a good fight or vulch is at. If you buffers keep that up then their will always be a gap between the fighter and bomber community.

Yes I have an agenda read any reply I have made in the fluff threads.  :)
« Last Edit: March 23, 2002, 11:14:49 PM by Wotan »

Offline SKurj

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HTC, can we change scoring?
« Reply #36 on: March 24, 2002, 12:33:34 AM »
Honcho, perks are not related to score...


SKurj

Offline Wotan

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HTC, can we change scoring?
« Reply #37 on: March 24, 2002, 02:29:13 AM »
sorry I did not catch honcho...... perks are totally different then score.

theres a multiplier for landing successfully (1.25) fer figuring perks.

All they did by bailing is not record a death in what buff they were in. However bails and captures are figured (for scoring not perks) for that sortie with a death multiplier. Read the AH help pages you can download the file from htc/downloads it has lots of info and explain perks in depth.

Offline -ammo-

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HTC, can we change scoring?
« Reply #38 on: March 24, 2002, 09:51:32 AM »
wotan, thx for the explanation, I appreciate you taklng the time out to do that. However I got an idea of how it works. Since I am only concerned really with fighter stats, and to some extent attack stats, that is all I measure how well I am doing by.
    Kills / Deaths + 1                     5.2157                            
    kills / Sorties                            2.8298            
    Kills / Time online                     0.0018            
    Hit percentage                         0.1109              
    Points                                      18900.4482    


total fighter time online 20:06:11. Fighter rank to this point is 33.

    Kills / Deaths + 1                     0.9563
    Kills / Sorties                            0.7865
    Kills / Time online                     0.0016
    Hit percentage                         0.0471
    Points                                      32006.1031


total fighter time online is 61:22:24. Fighter rank is 4 as of this post.

That is what I dont get. Is it just the fact that person number two has spent 3 times the amount of time in a fighter than person number one?
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline Voss

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HTC, can we change scoring?
« Reply #39 on: March 24, 2002, 09:58:09 AM »
If you follow the outline I presented above, and then also get field captures with a goon AND GV's, then you will rank.

I tested the 2k versus 4k buff run with the Lanc. Usually the best way is to capture the fields nearest the enemies training facility, and then buff it as I outlined. With the 4k egg, your hit percentage in buffs will peak as high as 30 (IIRC), and the 2k eggs will give you something like 12-13 (again, IIRC).

Also, using the unpopular GV's will give you rank, as well as perks. I've waded an LVT4 (the one with the cannon) into a group of PT spawners and the results were astounding.

As for attack, I stand by the training facility as the best target.

Give it a try! ;)

Offline Wotan

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« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2002, 10:56:31 AM »
well with flying nearly 3 times as much he has accumulated only 3/4 more air points.

However in this category its very "tight" as well. 14000 points equating to 29 rank slots.

Air points = PlaneDamageScore + KillScore


PlaneDamageScore =
(DamagePointsScoredOnEnemiesTh isSortie * DeathMult) +
TotalTourPlaneDamageScoredOnE nemies

+

KillScore =
((AirKillsThisSortie * 1.0) + (AirAssistsThisSortie * 0.25) +
(GroundKillsThisSortie * 1.0) + (GroundAssistsThisSortie * 0.25) * DeathMult) +
TotalTourKillScore


This second guy in your example is getting lots of bullets on the nme. He clearly has more kills and assists then you overall. But you are more efficent and tend to survive.

you basically get ranked in each category you add each of these together the guy with the lower total ranks higher.

Kills / Deaths + 1 5.2157  for example say you rank 10th here
kills / Sorties 2.8298  10th here
Kills / Time online 0.0018  10th here
Hit percentage 0.1109  10th here
Points 18900.4482  60 here

10 + 10 + 10 + 10 + 60 = 100

Kills / Deaths + 1 0.9563 20
Kills / Sorties 0.7865  20
Kills / Time online 0.0016 20
Hit percentage 0.0471  20
Points 32006.1031 he ranks 1st here

20 + 20 + 20 + 20 + 1 = 81

81 is less then 100 he ranks higher. (these are just made up number but this is how it works).
« Last Edit: March 24, 2002, 11:01:34 AM by Wotan »

Offline eskimo2

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« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2002, 01:50:42 PM »
The basic strategy to ranking well is to improve on your personal weak areas, even if you end up sacrificing your better ranking areas to do so.  Example; A pilot who has an excellent K/D and K/S (say 5:1 and 3 kills per sortie) may have a relatively poor K/T (say .0012).  He will probably rank in the top 100 in K/D and K/S but maybe only rank about #1000 in K/T.  If this pilot wants to improve his overall rank, he needs to mix it up a bit more and take greater risk, such as base defense and furballing.  After flying less conservatively, his K/D and K/S may drop (say to 3.0 and 2.0), but his K/T might jump to .0028.  If this were the case, his overall rank IN JUST THESE 3 CATEGORIES may be in the top 200 each.  That would be a big improvement: from 1200/3 to 600/3.

The most important thing to keep in mind about improving rank is to IMPROVE YOUR PERSONAL WEAK AREAS!  No ONE category is generally more important than the others.  People say what they think are the most important areas based on what most holds them back.

Unfortunately, we can not see exactly how we rank in each of the sub-categories.  You must look at a lot of other players scores just to get an impression of what is good and what is great.
You can also look at old Tours under the old stat system (Pre Tour 12).  But keep in mind that what was good then might not be as good now.  (I.E. in Tour 11, I was ranked #2 in fighter K/T at .0029, now that stat may only barely place a pilot in the top 100 for that sub-category.)

There are probably hundreds of tricks or strategies that you can use to improve sub-category rankings:
* If you have earned little or no points in a sortie, don't fly all the way home when you can ditch in friendly territory.  It will help your K/T at no cost to other sub-categories.
* When killing goons in cannon and mg armed planes, get a good solution and use your mgs only.  100+ mg hits at 50% is going to improve your overall hit % more so than 20 cannon hits at 50%. The cannons eliminate your target too quickly.
* Think of Points and K/S as opposites.  When considering to land or re-arm, keep in mind which of the two is hurting your score more.  If you are hurting on points more than K/S, choose to land a sortie after earning kills.  If K/S is hurting you more, then Re-arming will do much to help your score.
* This list could go on and on, its mostly common sense and score awareness.   

eskimo

Offline Ripsnort

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HTC, can we change scoring?
« Reply #42 on: March 24, 2002, 08:59:19 PM »
Great post Rangerbob!  Bravo! Yes! implement this!

Quote
Originally posted by RangerBob
snip...I for one would do away with giving any points or perks at all unless you could land, ditch, or bail in Friendly territory. It's just depressing to see the suicide attacks rewarded by getting points quickly. (You do get a higher score based on time to kill) Rewarding someone for dying in a combat flight sim just seems to be oriented in the wrong direction.

Basic points for basic success, and only if you land, ditch, or bail in friendly territory.  Full points and perks for landing, and a modifier for ditching or bailing would be acceptable.

Points for dying is like rewarding someone for doing the wrong thing.


Ranger Bob
« Last Edit: March 24, 2002, 09:06:54 PM by Ripsnort »

Offline WBHoncho

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HTC, can we change scoring?
« Reply #43 on: March 24, 2002, 11:40:01 PM »
If you die you should get nothing.