Expert pilots "quitting" because of mixed arena EM?

[Badger]

You know, I have to ask one question in light of all this fuss over easy mode (EM) and full realism (RM), which by the way isn't even implemented here yet.  So, panic isn't the order of the day until we see some fire.  Somehow, I suspect that Pyro and Hitech will do the right thing based upon the input they've had on here, plus their experience in what did and didn't work at iEN.  Give them some time, experimentation opportunity and intellectual credit, for ultimately being able to give us realism, fun and play balance.  The result has to be able to make a REAL business out of HTC, not a non-profit religious experience.  If the latter becomes the driving force here, we'll all be over at FA or WWII On-line.

My question is, I simply don't understand why all of the "experten" virtual pilots on either WB or AH, have such a vociferous negative reaction to flying in a mixed mode arena?  I've seen a number of posts from guys who's flying skill and maturity level, I both admire and respect a lot, saying they'd quit AH if that happened.

I would have thought that once you get to the point of being able to bang out 2,3,4 kills per sortie, that some form of boredom and lack of challenge would have been felt by those pilots.  By giving the novice, or even the guy who has been flying for some time this "golf" type handicap of EM, you'd think it would be kind of exciting for a RM pilot to go up against them?

Perhaps I've missed the point entirely, but personally, I would find it challenging to fly RM against an EM pilot, just so I could maintain the skill of pushing my virtual plane past the point where the EM pilot has an artificial barrier.

I would only like to see the EM pilot's plane marked on his icon with the fact that he's in that mode, so I can challenge myself as to the ACM to use against him.

Regards,
Badger


[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-28-2000).]

[-towd_]

not being a experten , but the badest thing in a pair of boots in a 109 . the very thought of a hog-c in easymode ( if its anything like thay had in wb) will degrade the fun of the whole game.  
lots of people just love killing and will use any advantage available in the game to do it. in wb there were fellows who knew how to fly just fine but had found they could game the game with easymode.
 most of us are frome air warrior and war birds roots and subscribe to the saying ( thos who do not know history are doomed to repeat it ) we have seen this before and it sucked so people mention history lest it repeat itself ..

i think that is what you missed

[RAM]

Bagder, nice post.

I do give Pyro and HT credit, and I know that they'll do the best for HTC. but if they think the best for them is EZmode mix in MA, then that way isnt mine, so I'll go.

I understand that they need to do business, and do things in theyr money interest...but again I wont support that measure because is not in MY money interest.

You say that EZmode would be treated as Golf Handicap...and they are opposite things. If in a Golf course you sign a card of -7, and the other with worse handicap than you signs a -9 then he has won...but still you HAVE -7.
What you do, your play, doesnt depend on the other's handicap.

Here if one benefits from EZmode, the other will take BENEFIT from you...and you depend on the other's handicap. That isn't fair its kind of quitting weight from one side of the balance and putting on the other side. And I wont support that.

And I am quite sure that people will use EZ mode even if they arent newbies...I am already seeing the flames here:
 "HEY YOU CHEATER YOU ARE IN EZ!"
"NO I AM NOT"
"YES YOU ARE"
etc etc etc.

This is a REAL danger for the current community and Aces High in general.

I say, if it isn't broken, why fix it?...Pyro, HT, are you REALLY sure this will give you more money?...do you REALLY want that extra money at the cost of pěssing off half a community and make a big part of it take the door and go?...

IF ain't broken, dont fix it.

IMHO.



[This message has been edited by RAM (edited 05-28-2000).]

[NineZ]

The game parameters should be identical for whatever the arena supports.  Easymode pilots should fly in the Easymode arena.  With time and practice they can take the plunge within the RA.

I have experienced a mixed type arena within another popular flight sim and it was a disaster, IMHO.  You had guys who were great pilots who never flew within the full real settings and who became masters at downing full real aces.  In addition, its been my experience that arcade type games bring into a sim alot of bantering and disrespectful commentary within the arena.

Having played within our honor system historical, no tag arena, I think I can say that all of us there hope everyone has their icons in the off mode.  The general concensus from everyone Ive met so far is lets make this a level playing field.

Im not panicing, but Arcade for arcade and real for real


JagdNine (Musketeer Escadrille)

[This message has been edited by NineZ (edited 05-28-2000).]

[Dago]

Its not the new beginning pilot in EZ mode that is the concern.  Its the guy who has flown it for 2 years.  Some guys never leave EZ mode.  They develop skills in the game using it, and instead of transitioning to real mode, they learn to use the advantages of EZ mode against real mode pilots.

They will not stall out in a tight turn, they will not snap into a spin, they can hang on the prop shooting at you when you are departing, and they will not black out when you do, giving them a longer view at your plane.

I would have no problem with beginners using EZ if it were just beginners. But its not.

EZ mode can help level the playing field a small amount for new guys, but when someone is good at the game and uses it, he can figure out how he can use it to a decided adavantage.  That is the problem as I see it.

Dago

[Saintaw]

Errrrr, just a though..... 2 Main arenas.... see what I mean ?

Why would you want to mix both ?
Sorry, am a dweeb in the subject (AH is my 1st online sim experience...)

Am I missing something ?


Saw, Dweeeb 'O matic

PS : Spatz Vs Saw (6846654/1!)

[By-Tor]

 As a non-subscription player of AH(I fly only h2h for lack of entertainment funds),perhaps I shouldnt even speak my view on this.But I have brought a squad of 8 into AH fot the H2H ladder and that hopefully gives HTC some added exposure and future support as THEY spread the word of this BEST WW2 aircombat sim.
 That being said ,I will opine that if RR is to be implemented it should be in its own arena.I too have seen the mess it made over at the 'old sim'.Tho it wont affect me as a H2H only player,let the 'experten'reap the rewards they have bought with thier experience and 'time on'.
 As a H2H ladder pilot I myself will have to leave if I have to trust that my adversary is not in RR mode.In 1 vs 1 combat with everything on the line-I know too many will be tempted to use the adv. that RR allows,even if it means breaking the 'honor' code.
 
  By-Tor
 

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"SCREAM'IN PTERODACTYLS"

[ra]

Someone please tell me how easy mode can be an advantage, I missed it.

ra

[RAM]

 

Originally posted by ra:
Someone please tell me how easy mode can be an advantage, I missed it.

ra

Imagine a Fly-by-wire 109G10 (so you cant pull it into a stall nor a Spin), autotrimming, UFO (able to hand in prop as noone can do).

You get the point?

[By-Tor]

 Borrowed from Dago...
 They will not stall out in a tight turn, they will not snap into a spin, they can hang on the prop shooting at you when you are departing, and they will not black out when you do, giving them a longer view at your plane.
 May not sound like alot ,but in air-combat,any LITTLE advantage can make the difference.It is indeed a game of inches.

    By-Tor

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"SCREAM'IN PTERODACTYLS"

[jedi]

Hmmm.  I think if I had finished in the Top 10 a few times using EZ mode, I wouldn't do much pontificating about folks not being willing to accept "more of a challenge."  

 



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[SnakeEyes]

All I see is alot of commenting by people who don't even know how EZ mode (in product WB) works.  I suggest you all download WB and test EZ mode offline or H2H so you have a better idea of how it works.  I hear a lot of comments that are nothing more than speculation about how EZ mode works.

PS - Jedi, get a grip.  Just because someone can fragfest in EZ mode to get points for *Scoring* doesn't mean a whole lot IMO.  As Bobn demonstrated, it isn't how well you fly, or how efficiently you kill, being a high scorer is related to how much you fly.  To be frank about it... scoring doesn't mean toejam... I'd be alot more worried if someone in EZ mode was in the Top 10 for Kills/Deaths, Kills/Sortie, or Avin's ratio.


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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[This message has been edited by SnakeEyes (edited 05-28-2000).]

[ra]

<<they will not stall out in a tight turn, they will not snap into a spin, they can hang on the prop shooting at you when you are departing>>

This sounds like an improperly modeled easy mode.  Stalls and spins should happen at the same AoA as normal mode.  Easy mode should prevent the pilot from reaching this AoA.  As far as blackouts, I don't see any reason they should be turned off for easy mode.  Anyone who needs easy mode will be an easy kill, he just won't auger or spin in as often, so he won't mind getting killed so much.  If someone can use this alleged easy mode in a way which makes it better than real mode, then it hasn't been modeled right.  

Let's wait and see, before we grab the pitchforks and torches and storm HTC.  Much ado about nothing, IMHO.

ra

[SnakeEyes]

Exactly right Ra... the WB EZ mode prevents the pilot from getting to an angle of attack where they could stall or spin.  Again, lots of people here are spouting off about EZ mode, but it's increasingly obvious that precious few actually know what they're talking about.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[funked]

EZ-mode WB planes can't do anything a good pilot can't do with EZ-mode off.

It's just that they let a ham-fisted pilot get closer to the edge of the envelope than he might be able to normally.