Expert pilots "quitting" because of mixed arena EM?

[easymo]

Funked. I flew the ACA pretty much 7 days a week for a year and half. I can do things in EZmode that would never evn occer to an FR pilot to try.

  BTW. So can badger.

[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 05-28-2000).]

[jedi]

Snakeeyes--

(whoosh) Swing! and a miss!  Well, the point will undoubtedly appear again.  You might get it the next time.

If you can't see the advantages conferred by EZ mode, and won't believe the actual statements by guys who say they HAVE used it to gain advantages, then I'd say you don't have a very good understanding of how EZ mode works in the ARENA, however "perfect" your understanding of how it works in the software might be.

Been playin 5 years, all RM.  Best ever K/D is 2.  Some of these EZ-mode types have K/D of 3 and 4.  So, OK, I must suck.  But apparently, I'm also stupid for not using EZ mode.  I have ZERO problems flying in RM.  It's not difficult at all.  So why are these EZ mode guys, who are already "better pilots" than me, sticking with EZ mode?  

The results don't validate your hypothesis, they validate mine.

And if I DID have a K/D of 3 or 4 using EZ mode, I SURE wouldn't suggest that RM pilots don't have the balls to accept the "challenge" of fighting EZ mode JERKS who should've switched to RM long ago (not to be confused with an EZ-mode newbie, whose guns I'm perfectly happy to fall to).

Whatever, I guess, but I hope the AH guys at least understand how deep the bad feelings about this run.  You don't want this to happen over here guys.  

And with that, personal attacks notwithstanding, I'll bow out of your forum.

At least until I can't resist any more  
 

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[wells]

It's not hard to fly in real mode.  Someone who knows absolutely squat about flying could learn it in 10 hours.  It's called 'practice offline'.  If someone can land the plane in EZ mode, they can land it in real mode, there's no difference there.  If he/she gets too slow in EZ mode, the nose drops and the plane crashes!  I can see the auto-takeoff thing being useful for those without pedals, but that's as far as it needs to go, IMO.

Like really, what's so hard about this?

Lesson #1.  Don't pull stick back so far

[cokerr]

I could see if people were paying by the hour how they may want an EZ mode to help with the learning curve. I love this game so either way I'm not leaving.
How about this: When you sign up for an account, you get two weeks trial. During these two weeks EZ mode can be toggled on and off. I think two weeks is long enough for someone to learn the basics of the flight model. ( I still push the envelope and rip off my wings, but it is stupidity not ignorance of the FM)
I am very proud of the kills I get, they are not very many. But, I earned them on a level playing field,(so to speak) If I could double them in EZ mode, they would be cheapened and the pride I felt would be gone.

Just my 2 cents,
coker

[BBGunn]

It's back again-one of my old gripes from past war-torn posts.  In easy mode a high performance AC kinda goes into a trainer/quasi still fast machine mode.  I always thought "Why not just build a trainer" like a T-6 and have the trainee chase a Culver drone around and shoot it up with a couple of 30cal mguns.  After the trainee can land and do basic manuvers and blast a drone he/she gets 'wings' and gets to go in a fighter.  I think this would be an added dimension for sims patterned on real life and a way to break in folks so when they get into the arena they'd at least be able to handle the fighter well enough to have fun and not get too frustrated.  I really don't think that the fighters should be toned down.  A training arena with real trainer AC would only add fullness/completeness to a sim like AH.

[Beegerite]

Badger;
What would you do if the management's vision didn't include marking their icons with EM?  Would you feel perfectly comfortable knowing that "some" but you don't know who are not held back with the same constraints as you are?  Under the assumption that it's a mixed arena with no distinguishing icons, what do you think would happen if somebody did one of those "Hey! <Ace_of_Aces> shot me down using easy mode! He's a wimp!  Who will be able to prove that easy mode doesn't provide an advantage?  Do you think that HT will post the code for anyone with programming experience can dissect it?  No, I don't think so.  It's a can of worms and it will poison our community.  I wasn't here from the beginning but in my memory, this is the first thing HTC has mentioned as a posibility that has illicited so many negative posts.  I really hope they think long and hard on this before implementing such a divisive feature.
Beeg

Originally posted by Badger:
<snip>

I would only like to see the EM pilot's plane marked on his icon with the fact that he's in that mode, so I can challenge myself as to the ACM to use against him.


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[This message has been edited by Beegerite (edited 05-28-2000).]

[Beegerite]

Snake;

I don't give a flying rats bellybutton about how it works, I just don't like the word EASY!  I like the word REAL!  I also have very good eyes (with glasses) and I read what HTC originally wrote and I liked it because it sounded like REAL.  Then just this week those same eyes read Pyro's post and I start reading EASY. Then I go on and I read that now they need money and hell I even read that they can't just live on those he calls old-timers (since I came here with my $30 in Jan. he can't be talking 'bout me).  We'll I get's my dander up and think, Man, they're about to give us a screwing so I starts tightening my belt and puckering up.  That's what this is all about!  Different threads about the same thing everywhere.  Can somebody say What the F?  Suggest you get some eyelids so your eyes will focus better on the issues.  
Beeg

 

Originally posted by SnakeEyes:
All I see is alot of commenting by people who don't even know how EZ mode (in product WB) works.  I suggest you all download WB and test EZ mode offline or H2H so you have a better idea of how it works.  I hear a lot of comments that are nothing more than speculation about how EZ mode works.

PS - Jedi, get a grip.  Just because someone can fragfest in EZ mode to get points for *Scoring* doesn't mean a whole lot IMO.  As Bobn demonstrated, it isn't how well you fly, or how efficiently you kill, being a high scorer is related to how much you fly.  To be frank about it... scoring doesn't mean toejam... I'd be alot more worried if someone in EZ mode was in the Top 10 for Kills/Deaths, Kills/Sortie, or Avin's ratio.

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[This message has been edited by Beegerite (edited 05-28-2000).]

[ra]

<<<I don't give a flying rats bellybutton about..>>>

Is that rat's bellybutton flying in Easy Mode?  

[SnakeEyes]

Jedi:

You just charged the mound, pal.  

I played Fighter Ops extensively with Badger, and I'm sure he'll tell you that I'm pretty conversant with the capabilities of an EZ mode aircraft in any arena.

In any case, again, I think everyone is making a mountain out of a molehill here... let's see them create an EZ mode before crucifying it.  

I'll give you credit on one point... it was damn funny watching all these folks rip the WB EZ mode, only to find out that it was inserted into the game by none other than the same crew that runs AH.    However, I think the approach here in terms of info sharing has changed alot since the old days, and that Pyro will ensure that anything created meets with the approval of most of the crowd here.  Obviously there will be a few ideologues like Beejer who won't compromise at any cost.... but that's life.  

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[Fishu]

I did quit playing AH already before its beta ended, because it does not offer too much that realism side or balanced modelling.

With balanced modelling I mean that allie and german planes are not out of same oven.
Most glitches have been in german planes so far. (ie. heavy torque of 109 at one point of game that made its autopilot almost completely useless)

Also there are some gun issues...
I made once over 20 kills in spitfire just by strafing, I even had good time to test guns.
Results? well, I had to hit enemy only 1-2 times and thats it, some part flew away and plane crashed.
Then Ive been doing alot of this in german planes (germans have been my primary ride), but cannon effect was far weaker.
They even flew after 5 hits into same spot. (note that in spitfire, not a single hit went same spot, because convergence was not set for close shots)

I also wonder whats that all whining was couple versions ago about .50 caliber weakness, I had no problem shooting down +10 fighters (in air) with P-51 in a sortie (until i was out of ammo)

Also plane models seems to be bit off...
Ive seen some things that I would never expect from few planes.. (things that ive read that were very hard, if not impossible for that type of plane)

Though, this might not be any reason for those allie experts to quit, who are happy with their planes and their 'balanced' realism.

I Hope that WWII Online works out better with plane FMs, I really would like to see game that is based more on realism.
Too many games so far are made to 'average' people, who dont bother to learn skills too long. (and whats more funner for americans than beating few luftwaffe experts like they would be some butterflys, with their 'average' skills)

[Vladd]

I flew for one of the larger 'FR' squads in AW for a few years. Since discovering the joys of AH, I've gently tried to entice as many of my fellows to at least try AH as I could. Perhaps 9 people have tried it out. Of these, only 2 others have moved here.

And this is HTC's problem of course. I mean AH is superior to AW in every way, FAR superior in most. Why on earth would anyone see the differences for themselves and still stay in AW??? Pricing and already being part of an established community account for a couple; but most simply fly a few times during their first 2 weeks, get shot down a lot, can't hit much in return, so decide to stick with what they know. AH is no fun.


We're all here because we want 'real.' And 'real' is fun, once you get past the initial steep learning curve. The fact is many (the majority even?) of people who try AH, obviously the best WW2 sim out there   don't persevere. They don't get much fun from practising offline. They don't get much fun from losing any 1 on 1 they encounter. They don't even understand trim, let alone find managing it 'fun'. Basically, they just don't have the patience.

So, do we say "FU" to these guys, or take, just a little, of the burden away? An EZ mode arena would be great, but if people logging on for the first time go to such a place and find only a handful of people there, the effect of such an arena could be more counter-productive than anything.

I wouldn't object to flying against, say, autotrimming nme. I'm less sure about the AoA inhibitor, but I've not experienced this in WB so can't really say. I'd be prepared to give it a go. All of this on condition that once a pilot has logged a certain number of hours, got so many kills etc, these benefits are lost.

We all know real is fun. I BELIEVE in FR  and I also believe that most people who try it and persevere get as much out of it as I do. Some people need to be weaned around to this point of view however    Guarantee me that any pilot I encounter flying in EZ mode is a newbie, and I wont mind. If introducing this kind of restricted EZ mode helps keep HTC viable then hey, that's a price we should all be willing to pay.

Vladd

[Pongo]

I think it would be cool. Some one anounces over channel 1..
Hey Pongo was my 35th kill! I just got promoted to real FM!
Bunch of players pipe in to congradulate him and welcome him to the rest of the game(that has shot down pongo)
You KNOW that guy has a heavy incentive to pitch in his $30.....

[Skorpyon]

I think Pongo has hit the proverbial nail on the head.  All pilots' scores are tracked for each tour.  What about allowing a set number of kills as a "Pilot Training Period" in easy mode.  As the pilot approaches his limit, he recieves a warning when logging on... "xx More Kills Until Real Mode Begins".  This would eliminate the problem of vet pilots taking advantage of easy mode, would reward ALL pilots for improving their skills, and would somewhat simulate the "real" way combat pilots developed... after flight training and practice flights, they get to do the real thing.  Once a pilot has reached his limit on Easy Mode kills, he can not go back.  Sounds like a way to keep everyone happy, use a potentially useful training tool, and not add a very "arcade" quality to an otherwise excellent game. WTG Pongo!!  

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Skorpyon
I/JG2 ~Richthofen~
"Feel the Sting......"

[This message has been edited by Skorpyon (edited 05-30-2000).]

[paquete]

I like the idea of having a limited time/score/kills for EZ mode usage. Besides that, how that if EZ users have special Icons (new colours, and extended visibility range)?.

Apart from that, we could have all EZ users' planes painted in plain colour, say 'pink'.

PS: I wouldn't leave even If only me is flying RM  

[Creamo]

And after a set amount of time in "Easy mode" the newbies kill X amount of planes, then get "promoted" to a flight model that they stall into the terrian time after time, or get stall fighted outta Energy into oblivion?

Won't they quit within 10 days because the "rush" and "reward" is replaced by utter and complete frustration of failure?

Where does this promoting of not learning anything by getting used to a "point and shoot" flight model solve anything?

Just wondering for the points made is all...Ive no opinion yet as I'm a Dweeb newbie to this whole online realistic sim thang.

I personally liked learning a more realistic format, and better yet... looking forward to studying it to figure it out.

P.S>

You could save 95% of the newbies frustration by having HTC print a professional manual, just like what every other boxed sim has.

Not a online manual that I can't even stand to navigate.

A real life printed, spiral bounded, take to the crapper and read manual that covers all of the info on aircraft, vehicles, weapons, strats, and community. It's what this sim needs, and much more than the next effort on a graphical improvement. Really.

[This message has been edited by Creamo (edited 05-30-2000).]