Author Topic: Middle East - DejaVu? (Read 3106 times)

ispar · « **Reply #45 on:** April 01, 2002, 10:54:44 PM »

Steven, have I posted anything but on the personal level? I do not support the military action, and I will not participate. I would rather we did not become engaged in a conflict, but what can I do? I can only help pick up the pieces... donation, medicine, peacemaking, etc.

ispar · « **Reply #46 on:** April 01, 2002, 11:02:41 PM »

Sorry Hang, missed that post. I'm not saying that we should just do away with our military, right now, and wait for the hammer to fall. That would be idiocy. However, I am going to direct my energies toward that ideal world you describe, rather than fighting. I'm sure you would be happy to have me sweep mines, wouldn't you, though?

We're never going to get rid of police. We need them and their courage, and always will. We likely will never be able to dispense with a military, but we can do far, far better in the future, I hope. In the meantime, I will not support any military action, directly or indirectly. Yeah, I wish there was no military. Is that viable? No, not right now. Someday, I can hope. Even if not in my lifetime. Maybe you can understand my position now. Maybe not. It doesn't really matter in any case. If you don't... you don't.

Thrawn · « **Reply #47 on:** April 01, 2002, 11:17:03 PM »

Hey old vet guys. I have a question I've wondered about since shortly after Sept. 11. A bunch of you guys called the recruiters and tried to sign up again.

Did you really think they would you take you? No offence intended, aren't some of you looking retirement square in the face?

Hangtime · « **Reply #48 on:** April 01, 2002, 11:28:22 PM »

Quote

However, I am going to direct my energies toward that ideal world you describe, rather than fighting. I'm sure you would be happy to have me sweep mines, wouldn't you, though?

Mine sweeping and disposal is a critical task, much needed, requiring folks of temperment and disposition that are well within your avowed ideals. Last time we had this conversation, i suggested you become a navy corpsman, another highly needed job, that contributes to the best ideals you so stridently avow.

So? Whats your play? Protest weenie, ragged t-shirt and sandels, pursuing the lil braless vacant eyed peace groupies? Or real work, with a purpose, that saves lives, preserves life?

Henh. send me a postcard, pacifist.

easymo · « **Reply #49 on:** April 02, 2002, 02:48:47 AM »

"Did you really think they would you take you? No offence intended, aren't some of you looking retirement square in the face?"

Some Grecian formula can do wonders:) However you cant get around finger prints

It may seem silly to you. But some men had come to kill Americans. That is unacceptable. I was pissed off big time. I still am. Unlike some folks, I would dearly love to set my front sight blade on a cave pigs. My frustration at being to old to get a shot at it, is no laughing matter.

Toad · « **Reply #50 on:** April 02, 2002, 07:07:28 AM »

Thrawn,

What the Kansas ANG unit I called does is what I do for a living.
Flying multimotor jets from A to B anywhere in the world. Yeah, I thought I could be of some use.

The ONLY difference is that they aerial refuel other jets on the way. In my youth, I went through Tanker crew training, the first step to flying Recon models of similar aircraft. I could still do it, I'm quite certain; that's not what they were looking for however.

They WERE actively taking names of us old guys because they, at that time, envisioned an "air bridge" operation sort of like what happened in Desert Shield/Storm. They figured they were going to need lots more pilots capable of simply flying the cruise portions of the mission while the Active Duty crews slept on board. Basically the "augmented crew" concept with us old pharts as the augmentees.

As it was, the military went a different route than DS. So, the crews they had were sufficient.

BTW, the poor guy answering the phone and taking my details down said that he'd had literally over a hundred phone calls from guys like me already... and this was in the afternoon of Sept 12.

ispar · « **Reply #51 on:** April 02, 2002, 05:42:37 PM »

Hang, I wasn't knocking what you suggested. It is very useful and essential. But I'm laughing at the idea of you just sitting there hoping all the way that I make wrong step...

BOOM! No more ispar!

Meanwhile, back at the HTC O'club - "PARTY!!! Yeee-HAW!"

illo · « **Reply #52 on:** April 02, 2002, 07:22:05 PM »

Quote

You entire life is built upon freedoms bought with the blood of others.. you insult their sacrafice.

How many times has US been on defence? How many times US has been the attacker? Who is bying freedom with others blood? I really can't understand patriots...it's just form of nazims.

I wasn't very suprised about WTC incidence. I knew something alike was coming. That was simply because there were enough people who were totally pissed off about actions of US government. Think about it....is violence really the way to go, it all comes back to you. Don't you cry then?

Think about who made those snickers your wearing..some indonesian kid maybe? Who picked those bananas you buy from supermarket? Who made your jogging suit? And you talk about freedom. You are just parrots repeating that freedom roadkill propaganda you have been told since you were little.
USA is VERY, VERY far from freedom.

Or are other countries better to be kept poor producers with cheap production costs(i could say slavery)to keep up western well fare? As long as they don't own production facilites they don't get richer and labour stay cheap. Which equals cheap products in US/western markets.

Do you call this freedom? It's just new kind of slavery. For you..übermensch.

Sadly money seems to be highest priority for western governments and companies. Who would admit we are guilty?

Sorry my bad english, but chew on it.

Thrawn · « **Reply #53 on:** April 02, 2002, 07:43:46 PM »

Thanks for your considered responses.

koala · « **Reply #54 on:** April 02, 2002, 07:47:33 PM »

Quote

Humans are animals only in the biological sense. We ought to know better than to kill off our own species.

How arrogant / naive is that?? Human beings *are* animals in every sense of the word. That is exactly why we need to be strong as a nation. Just like in the animal kingdom, the strong survive, the weak die out. You may think you're "above" all of that, but you're just deluding yourself.

illo · « **Reply #55 on:** April 02, 2002, 07:58:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by koala

How arrogant / naive is that?? Human beings *are* animals in every sense of the word. That is exactly why we need to be strong as a nation. Just like in the animal kingdom, the strong survive, the weak die out. You may think you're "above" all of that, but you're just deluding yourself.

What is being strong as a nation? Enslaving others?
Or try to make world better place for everybody?
Latter isn't good business income wise...it's only good business humanity wise.
You must make sacrificices to help others.
How many in our world is willing to do that?

Pongo · « **Reply #56 on:** April 02, 2002, 08:24:52 PM »

The concept that it takes the same courage to not fight for your country as it does to fight for your country is increadibly silly.
Of course it does not. Shame and fear are not the same thing. Swallowing shame is not equivilent to overcoming fear.

Your assumption that you will find the courage in need to defend yourself and your own is just as silly.
Do you believe in your way of life and want to protect it enough for your children and your countrymens children to risk all you will ever be to prevent someone like Adolf Hitler from changing it to match his vision of the world through force of arms...

Your mom may have told you that it takes more courage to turn the other cheek. Your mom was wrong. It takes no courage to leave the defence of your life to another. Do many men fight through a fear of shame? Perhaps. But they face the real fear in the end.
By the way. Did Ghandi disband the Indian army? And wasnt he lucky that he was facing the British not Adolf Hitler.

If a man with a club shows up at your door to beat you to death you will kick into pacifist hero mode and take him down. But if 120 men with clubs show up you will watch your neihbors go out to stop them and let them die to save your family?

There is nothing admirable about cowerdice. And nothing very interesting about the feeble defence of it.

....
Hey those arabs have taken control of this airliner and are going to crash it into a building, help us stop them..
No sorry cant do it. I will cheer you on from back here though, I feel it takes more courage to refuse to fight!

Toad · « **Reply #57 on:** April 02, 2002, 08:25:55 PM »

Illo, who's being enslaved?

Also, please detail for me the actions of the US government that made the WTC incident a legitimate response? What have we done that was sooo bad?

Thx.

Pongo · « **Reply #58 on:** April 02, 2002, 08:30:33 PM »

Illo
I want to be sure I understand you.
Buying goods from poor counties is bad right?
It makes us Nazis right..
And for that, the destruction of the world trade center by religeos fanatics from rich oil producing countries is perfectly reasonable right?
I just want to be sure I understand you

bashwolf · « **Reply #59 on:** April 02, 2002, 08:35:29 PM »

Lol some of you guys sound like you watching too much TV News (CNN)

Why dont we speak of 25 Isreal students who spied US top secret before Sept 11. Almost every "Isreal Art Student" lived on same block of the terroist. Please do more research than watching TV that is mostly control by Jewish money

Read articles by LaRouche.

I got few questions for you people
When was Isreal created?
Who lived there before there for past 2000 years?
How you like it I come to you house and say get out and i want make this my house you live on the backyard of my Neighbors??

Palestianians wants there homeland period. They have no life to live so they corner in ally by few bullies and getting there donut kicked.

Oh wait why are there no media in war area where all Isreal soldiers are controlling. Few attempted but they were shot by Isreal soldiers.

These are few of my what so called Knowldge on this middle east issue hope one day we will all live in peace?

Oh I forgot we in deep sh** in recession notice all attention on news is war in middel east.

We are all F**King sleeping wake the heck up and smell the coffee