Author Topic: Middle East - DejaVu?  (Read 3105 times)

Offline Staga

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Middle East - DejaVu?
« Reply #75 on: April 03, 2002, 07:57:35 AM »
This was in the news: Syria sends 20,000 soldiers more to Lebanon.

Offline Toad

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Middle East - DejaVu?
« Reply #76 on: April 03, 2002, 08:22:36 AM »
Don't worry; the Finns will jump into this diplomatically and get both sides to sit down together over a meal. 2 hours later Sharon and Arafat will come out holding hands and singing "we are the world".  ;)



AND WE ALL FALL DOWN! Jan. 3, 2001

Clinton-Arafat talks end without agreement on U.S. peace proposal

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"Major differences remain

Although Clinton's proposals were never officially made public, reports indicated that they envisioned an independent Palestinian state covering 95 percent of the West Bank and all of Gaza. Additionally, it is believed the proposals included Palestinian control over Haram al-Sharif, a Muslim holy spot in east Jerusalem, known to and revered by Jews as the Temple Mount.

In exchange, the Palestinians were to drop their demand for a right of return for Palestinian refugees -- and their descendants -- who fled or were driven out of Israel when it was founded in 1948.

Initially, the Israeli government indicated it was prepared, with reservations, to negotiate on the basis of Clinton's proposals, but the Palestinians declared they needed more details.


Too bad eh? Now it won't stop again until they're all swimming in blood. Maybe next time.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Tumor

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Middle East - DejaVu?
« Reply #77 on: April 03, 2002, 08:48:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
Tumor does U.S have a embassy in Libya, Sudan, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria or Somalia and if yes how brave would those marines be in a bar in those countries?
You think they would like to teach couple lessons there too?


...YOU have never met a U.S. Marine, that is quite apparent :)
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline Tumor

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Middle East - DejaVu?
« Reply #78 on: April 03, 2002, 08:51:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
This was in the news: Syria sends 20,000 soldiers more to Lebanon.


Because the Syrian's have a very good memory.
"Dogfighting is useless"  :Erich Hartmann

Offline bashwolf

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Middle East - DejaVu?
« Reply #79 on: April 03, 2002, 10:14:54 AM »
Toad my my thinking is this,

Isreal will not leave or give up the country nor will Palestianins.  They will not live in peace till end of time than no one cares because we all be dead than.  If up to me they should split up 2 holiest place to each religion accordingly.  Its funny i know Palestian in US and who works for Jewish and they both get along fine :)

Offline bashwolf

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Middle East - DejaVu?
« Reply #80 on: April 03, 2002, 10:35:58 AM »
Oh boy! this is not looking good we going into middle east all out war.

Offline AKSWulfe

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Middle East - DejaVu?
« Reply #81 on: April 03, 2002, 11:06:18 AM »
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Originally posted by bashwolf
Oh boy! this is not looking good we going into middle east all out war.


Huh? Seriously, I'm confused... you just heard some news or something?
-SW

Offline Nashwan

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Middle East - DejaVu?
« Reply #82 on: April 03, 2002, 11:26:40 AM »
Toad, the offer Arafat turned down was not as good as claimed.

90% of the West Bank was offered to the Palestinians, but it was broken up into several sections split by Israeli control points, to ensure security for the settlers who were to remain. All border crossings between Palestinian territory and Jordan and Egypt were to be under Israeli control.

You can see some of the issues behind it here
http://www.mediamonitors.net/gushshalom1.html
http://mondediplo.com/2000/09/08campdavid
http://www.brook.edu/dybdocroot/views/articles/telhami/CHjanuary2001.htm

(Lifted from another board)

Offline Elfenwolf

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Middle East - DejaVu?
« Reply #83 on: April 03, 2002, 11:36:10 AM »
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Originally posted by easymo
The one constant we have always been able to depend on, from the Europeans. Is jalousie.  Well, pal we are rich and powerful. And we will grow even more so as time gos by.

  I was sent to my war on a commercial airliner. Think about that. a nation so wealthy they can afford to ship PFC,s around on commercial flights.

  The message here is a simple one. DONT diddly WITH US.


Easymo, I also was shipped off to "our" war on a commercial jet liner, spent a years' tour and was shipped back home... What were your feelings on the plane ride over there as opposed to the plane ride home? On the way over I was scared and aprehensive. On the ride home I was bitter, sad and angry. At no time did I feel proud that my nation was able to transport us on a commercial jet complete with Stewardesses and then bring us home the same way.

 On the contrary, it made me question our reasons for being there in the first place, and it made me believe my "rich and powerful" Nation was not above lying to the public back home or covering up atrocies. Basically I felt like I had been sent to a weird and twisted nightmare for a year and had woken up, shaking from a bad dream. Had we had to answer to the same standards the Nazis had to answer to after WW2 many of us would have been hung as war criminals, I'm ashamed to say, but at the time it seemed like the only thing to do.

As an American I don't aspire to have the "richest, most powerful Nation on the Planet, striving to become even richer and more powerful." I'd prefer to be part of a Nation that works for peace and justice for ALL peoples of the world, the same as we strive for those goals with our own citizens. And if we truly are the "richest, most powerful nation on the Planet" we have a responsibility to be the world's PEACE keepers. Only as a last resort should we EVER commit our children to die halfway around the world.

It's amazing we have the pro-Israeli crowd justifying what the Israelis are doing, the pro-Palestinian crowd justifying what the Palestinians are doing, and the pro-peace crowd being railed against by both sides as being unrealistic. "Realistic" is having a friend die in your arms. "Realistic" is shooting someone in cold blood to exact revenge. That's real, now how many of you think you could live that and then be OK with your children flying off to the next war 30 years later?

Agree, disagree or be indifferent, but what do any of you see as a satisfactory conclusion to this whole terrible mess? The destruction of Israel? The murder and expulsion of all Palestinians from the region? Because every time someone points out the option of peaceful coexistance so many of you dismiss it outright as being impossible. I don't think ANYTHING is impossible...even peace.

Offline Vector

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Middle East - DejaVu?
« Reply #84 on: April 03, 2002, 12:05:27 PM »
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Originally posted by AKSWulfe


Huh? Seriously, I'm confused... you just heard some news or something?
-SW


I just heard from news that Egypt has broke off its relations to Israel. However Egypt didn't broke off diplomatic relations.
Hezbollah has attacked again.
What next..?
- Israel makes a revenge strike against Hezbollah (in Syria?)
- and next..?

Offline AKSWulfe

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Middle East - DejaVu?
« Reply #85 on: April 03, 2002, 12:07:29 PM »
Hmmm that is quite scary Vector.

Thanks for the info!
-SW

Offline easymo

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elfen
« Reply #86 on: April 03, 2002, 12:56:59 PM »
I'm curious about the route your flight took. Could you tell me about it.

Offline Elfenwolf

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Re: elfen
« Reply #87 on: April 03, 2002, 01:37:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by easymo
I'm curious about the route your flight took. Could you tell me about it.


Sure, Easymo. We flew out of Travis AFB, California, refueled in Anchorage, Alaska, and I can't remember if we refueled in Japan or Okinawa next, it was one of those going over and the other one coming back, I'm 99% certain it was Japan but I wouldn't swear to it, and we landed at Bien Hoa Air Base, slightly North of Saigon. I believe it was a United Airlines flight, but we switched planes in Japan to another carrier (or Okinawa, but jogging my memory I'm sure it was Japan)  so I'm not sure as to the actual carrier. I do remember the total flight time was 21 hours, though.

Coming bacy we flew into Clark AFB in the Philippines, stayed about a week and then flew into Travis AFB via either Okinawa or Japan, 99% certain it was Okinawa.

Offline Elfenwolf

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Middle East - DejaVu?
« Reply #88 on: April 03, 2002, 01:39:24 PM »
Oh...the ride home was a military flight...no stewardesses. I went slightly over a year without seeing an Anglo female.

Offline Staga

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Middle East - DejaVu?
« Reply #89 on: April 03, 2002, 01:48:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Don't worry; the Finns will jump into this diplomatically and get both sides to sit down together over a meal. 2 hours later Sharon and Arafat will come out holding hands and singing "we are the world".  ;)


Maybe if U.N peacekeepers and negotiators in middle-east could succeeded better in their task maybe there would be couple buildings more in N.Y ;)