Author Topic: Sweden neutral? Flamest from General Discussion resumes here!  (Read 1268 times)

Offline Nash

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Sweden neutral? Flamest from General Discussion resumes here!
« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2002, 11:06:49 PM »
Ugh... no I didn't. Just found this "Polish contingent consists of 275 soldiers - chemists, biologists, logistists, sappers and rangers of special unit GROM."

Offline Toad

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« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2002, 11:09:49 PM »
Yep, Thrawn.. it's why we let you guys spend the winter in Florida.  ;)

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2002, 11:47:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Yep, Thrawn.. it's why we let you guys spend the winter in Florida.  ;)



LMAO!!:D

Had a caller at my tech support job the other day, from Florida.

"Where is the help desk located anyway", he asked.

"We're located in Ottawa, Canada."

"Heheh, what's the weather like?"

"Well, we just got a whole bunch more snow."

Starts laughing,  "It's 85 degrees here!"

"Wow, that must be tough" :mad:

;)

Offline Toad

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Pongo.....
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2002, 12:36:57 AM »
Forgot to say "thanks".

Some of the stuff you've written makes me wish I was that eloquent and to the point.

>

If I ever meet ya at a con, drinks are on me, your favorite flavor.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Tac

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« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2002, 12:55:07 AM »
"Yah know, in 1940, England, alone; was faced with the same choice the Swedes had. Seems they came to a different conclusion; and fought. The Swedes could have.. but they didn't.

So, Tac; I'd say BY your reasoning, England should have caved, too. But they didn't. I think the entire planet owes Winston and England a big vote of thanks. Don't you? "

Apples and Oranges.

Sweden had nowhere near the military power, navy and air force that the british had at that time. Nor were they one of the victors of WW1 that imposed the harsh surrender terms on Germany (which hitler seemed to have a personal vendetta against). Nor were they threatened by 2 wars going on around them (finland vs russia, germany vs eastern europe).

That the brits deserve thanks for fighting on? SURE. big for that. Surrender was never an option for the british isles in the first place anyway. It was hitler's incompetence that saved the british in almost all the aspects that wouldve allowed the germans to invade britain. Switching bombers from plastering the RAF to plastering cities (saving the RAF!), losing a great deal of ships in the baltic (and he had to cancel Op. Sea Lion because he didnt have any ships left after that!), starting the Russian Front, etc.

Sweden had the option of "caving in" instead of fighting a battle they were sure to lose. And by doing so they survived. Morality goes out the window when thats at stake. Not that Sweden was aware of all the crap the nazi's were up to though.

Offline Thrawn

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« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2002, 01:14:41 AM »
I don't know.  I've read that Operation Sealion was never really ment to happen.  That they wanted to use the threat of it for leverage, in getting the UK to surrender.

"only as a means of exerting political and military pressure on England" - General Wilhelm Keitel - Chief of Staff of the Oberkommando der Wehrmarcht.

Apparently, Hilter might have had Sealion as more of a planning option, then as an actual operation he wanted to go ahead with.  The Wehrmarcht itself was no where near ready for a campaign of that sort, let alone the having the ships to do it.

Anyway, apparently it's up for debate.

Offline Tac

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« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2002, 01:20:44 AM »
"Anyway, apparently it's up for debate."

Aye it is. From what I know, the loss of so many destroyers and transports in the baltic seriously screwed any kind of seaborne invasion of england. The kriegsmarine was woefully underpowered and by losing all those ships it just couldnt mount any kind of invasion. Thats why sea lion was called off completely its believed. Some say it was the weather or the increased RAF resistance.. maybe it was all 3 combined.

Offline straffo

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« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2002, 02:10:40 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKSWulfe
I dunno Dowding, but the Swiss definitely shot down a couple of American B-17s.
-SW


yep and some bf110 109 190 He111 etc :)

Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Yup it's like that other guy in that other thread who thanked France and Japan and whoever else for support after 9/11... continuing to overlook that as he writes that the Canadian military is on the ground in Afghanistan shootin' into caves alongside the US (don't see any French or Japanese and whoever else there with them). Shrug....


Ya need better glasses.

Offline Maniac

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« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2002, 06:18:30 AM »
Sweden Rulez!
Warbirds handle : nr-1 //// -nr-1- //// Maniac

Offline dawvgriid

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Sweden rulez
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2002, 09:38:17 AM »
,,,,,yup just ask 7000 jewes,who got ferried to Sweden in
ONE NIGHT ,in danish fishingboats.

Dawvgrid at home

Offline Staga

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« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2002, 10:07:07 AM »
Almost 80000 Finnish childrens were transported to Sweden to be safe from the war.

Offline Toad

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« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2002, 10:25:54 AM »
Dawvgrid: Ever wonder how many Jews rolled out of Germany and into death camps on railroad car wheels and rails made from fine Swedish iron ore?

Staga: Presumably those children were transported in a means that did not interfere with the free flow of German troops and war materials to and from Germany.

See... anyone can do what you guys do to the US. It's not too tough to be critical.

As I said, the point is NOBODY, NO NATION IS PERFECT.

I have nothing at all against the Swedes; they've done pretty good things, all things considered. But they have their "dark moments" like any other country. Certainly enough that they should be wise enough not to throw stones.  ;)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline dawvgriid

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« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2002, 12:47:01 PM »
Well  Toad,, I wasn`t throwing stones at the US,at least not in this thread ;)
Anyone said JEHOVA? >John cleese voice<;)

Offline Steven

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Sweden neutral? Flamest from General Discussion resumes here!
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2002, 07:52:08 PM »
Hindsight is 20-20 but it can also be perverted like a circus mirror.  It's tiresome always hearing from people who come from nations which really do squat in terms of making the world a better place.  It's always easy to criticize, but keep in mind the actual intentions of what you critique.  It's never so easy as step A leads to result B.  I'm certain the USA leads the world in terms of contributions to foreign aid.  Heck, I certainly could use some of those taxes for personal goods (like a Cougar joystick) instead of those taxes going to some starving person who will later only lash out against the USA as his scapegoat for his country's poor economic situation while he supports some numnutt military dictator who runs the country into the ground.  It seems if we can't solve other people's problems, we are at fault.  However, on the world arena, we try more than anyone!  But as everyone knows, you can never please everyone.  We do carry a big stick (and I personally think we do not use it enough), but we also carry a HUGE medical bag to try to assist those more unfortunate than us.  Just name any other "non-Western" country you'd prefer to be in our place and I guarantee you the world would be an oozing cist.  

Yeah, Finland and Sweden sure are making the world a better place.  Right!  

Interesting about this ore-trade topic.  They might not have had a choice in the matter; though, they might have too.  It's easy to critique when looking back (as Toad said...I think it was him.)  But it made me think of how the USA stopped important trade with Japan when Japan would not cease in its conquest of China.  It supposedly forced an attack upon our nation too.  I guess our supporting Israel from annihilation (not running their lives for them, supporting them) warranted an attack on the WTC and possibly dirty-bombs in our cities in the near future.  Step off! We let you live out of our own goodness...  again, name another country you'd want with our military and economic might.

Offline Hangtime

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« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2002, 08:07:58 PM »
Puke!

Give 'em whut fer, son. My fingers are tired. ;)
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.