Author Topic: Will you defend palestinians...  (Read 1904 times)

Offline Hangtime

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Will you defend palestinians...
« Reply #90 on: April 04, 2002, 11:09:37 PM »
Yup.. arafat had his chance to distance himself from Hammas and Hezbollah, snag the ring and get a palestinian state.... and he blew it. I think the bonehaid actually fell into the same trap poorly advised unprofessional politicians usually do.. he started beliving his own rhetoric.

And I agree.. hammas and hezbolla have divergent goals from al fatah.. and now that it's very clear to the world there is no credible 'palestinian leader'. Result: it's now a strictly lose-lose deal for the people of palestine.... and it's way to late for arafat, israel or the US to try and put the cork back in.
The price of Freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness...

...at home, or abroad.

Offline Wotan

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Will you defend palestinians...
« Reply #91 on: April 04, 2002, 11:25:51 PM »
sorry hang I was replying to caligulas question.

not to prove any point related to this thread.

Charon nice post there,,,,,,,,
« Last Edit: April 04, 2002, 11:28:39 PM by Wotan »

Offline Sharkm8

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Will you defend palestinians...
« Reply #92 on: April 04, 2002, 11:54:07 PM »
Have any of you taken notice where all of this is taking place? i mean is it the least ironic that its in the most holy areas ever and it all fits in to what was told in revelation.  i dont have a specific religion right now, but i do know that revelations talks a lot of violence in the holy region.  i wouldnt condone for either side.  but coming from the US where religion isnt taken seriously i dont think many of us americans realize the strength of religion in those countries. religion here barely can get a man out of bed on his worship day, but in arab and jewish countries it can drive him to kill himself and others.  
       
         And who should be supported? neither.  both sides are reacting with brawn instead of brains, so if either side would learn to use their head instead of their gun maybe the fighting would stop. im only seventeen so im just trying to say what i think of all of this, so if im totally wrong go easy cuz im still learning. just my two cents, maybe a dollar

Offline Charon

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Will you defend palestinians...
« Reply #93 on: April 04, 2002, 11:58:39 PM »
Yeah, the Elephant toejam is pretty deep right now. The only hope I see for a reasonable settlement is the fact that there is more neutral coverage and a more neutral position in Washington than I've seen for quite some time, even today. And as you say, it's hard to see how Arafat can provide any positive leadership, but I'm not sure if the alternative would be any better. The streets have a mind of their own, and one that may not be receptive to moderation anymore.

Quote
The Sanctions, and recognition, that toad has carefully provided elsewhere, are what put Israel on the map. Not some thug,s.

If we allow terrorism to work. No one, in any country in the world, will ever be able to feel sacure again.
 


easymo, I give the Zionists far more credit for achieving their goals with their own trigger fingers. They had a long term plan -- spaced out over decades -- which they executed at numerous levels to achieve statehood. International help was a part of that, as was terrorism which did provide sufficient supporting incentives to the process. However, the Zionists did the lion's share on their own and could have been successful without the support, but only without significant opposition as well, IMO.

I agree there is no place for terrorism in the world. At the same time, I don't see a place for territorial ambition that substitutes a 500lb gp bomb for a bunch of dynamite strapped to someone's body. You can easily execute terrorism using a modern military and a good PR machine. I imagine the average Palestinian civilian is just as terrorized, likely more so, than any Israeli citizen. The goal in this conflict is land, and the Israelis have as much to gain or lose by the current turn of events as the palestinians, and a hawkish faction is acting accordingly. Again, go back to civil war times and the world doesn't care. Today, well, humanity has made some progress as a whole which at least supports the possibility of world peace at some distant time in the future.

Charon
« Last Edit: April 05, 2002, 12:08:04 AM by Charon »

Offline Charon

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Will you defend palestinians...
« Reply #94 on: April 05, 2002, 12:18:00 AM »
Fine post Sharkm8, keep on learning. I'm 38 years old a have a staggering amount of ignorance myself :)  

Quote
And who should be supported? neither. both sides are reacting with brawn instead of brains, so if either side would learn to use their head instead of their gun maybe the fighting would stop.


You are absolutely correct.

Charon

Offline fd ski

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Will you defend palestinians...
« Reply #95 on: April 05, 2002, 12:22:31 AM »
Charon, Salute mate.

I hope you don't mind. I've crossposted your post to AGW where similar discussions are taking place.

http://agw.warbirdsiii.com/agw//Forum7/HTML/003830.html

One classy post.

Offline Charon

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Will you defend palestinians...
« Reply #96 on: April 05, 2002, 12:30:47 AM »
No problem at all Ski, tnks to those who have appreciated it. It's  about the third time I've developed such a post on these boards so I would hope my position is a bit polished by now. I just wish the possibility of a better resoultion to the situation was as possible today as it was the first time, which wasn't all that long ago. At some point the hatred becomes so ingrained that a level-headed thinking solution becomes practically impossible.

Charon

Offline easymo

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Will you defend palestinians...
« Reply #97 on: April 05, 2002, 01:00:56 AM »
Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives. --FBI Definition

The key word there is UNLAWFUL
 
When Quantrills raiders rode on Lawrence Kan. And went about slaughtering its civilians. That was recognized as an unlawful act by every one.  That was an act of terrorism.  And is notorious to this day.

As horrible as organized warfare is. It does have some rules.  As flimsy as these rules may be.  They keep us from falling into complete chaos.  Without them any nitwit with a grudge, might just blow your family up.


When they were small,  my children use to, occasionally behave badly, to get my attention.  They always wound up regretting it:).

 For the Palestinians it would be the same.  Right now, I would like to see the Israelis take the Arabs offer based on the 1967 boarders.  But if this thing comes down to America being forced to make a choice.  Common sense dictates that the lesser evil is to fight against terrorist.  This is one Pandoras box no civilized country can afford to leave open.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2002, 01:17:29 AM by easymo »

Offline GRUNHERZ

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Will you defend palestinians...
« Reply #98 on: April 05, 2002, 04:16:18 AM »
Terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives. --

Oh I get it!

Like throwing private property from ships,  lets say tea bags, and maybe attacking government tax collectors?

Was that Terrorism too?

Its all realtive, all of it is terrorism but not always seen the same by all people.

Offline takeda

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Will you defend palestinians...
« Reply #99 on: April 05, 2002, 05:53:28 AM »
Awesome post Charon. A perfect exposition of pure facts and to the point analysis.

Im saving it for reference because it reflects perfectly my own views, which I fail many times to express properly.

Thanks for this island of rational thinking in the sea of flames this question brings upon us :)