Unnecessary suicidal bomb runs

[Widewing]

Last evening I watched as a P-47 and F6F died as they made suicide bomb runs on a CV. Yeah, they scored hits, but died too. It's so unnecessary.

It doesn't take any skill to dive onto a flight deck. Moreover, it only takes a little skill to deliver your bombs without getting killed and achieve the same end result.

Here's what works for me. Arrive over the Task force no lower than 12,000 feet. Align you flight path with that of the target ship.
As you approach the ship, pull off throttle and let your speed decline to about 150-200 mph. Roll into a vertical or near-vertical dive. Place your gun sight about 300-500 feet ahead of the ship (about 1/2 the length of the carrier or cruiser, a full length for destroyers). Pickle your bombs no lower than 8,000 feet, pull out and jink. If flying an F4U, drop your landing gear before rolling into the dive. This does two things. 1) It slows your rate of acceleration. 2) When the gear starts groaning, it's time to pickle the bombs (this helps you to limit altitude loss). Alignment is critical, so pull off and try it again if you find that you have to maneuver too much to get good alignment. It took a long time to get to position, don't drop unless the setup is near perfect.

Using this method I've never missed, not even with destroyers and I've only been hit by ack once.

Try it and see if it works for you too.

My regards,

Widewing

[Tac]

i dont mind suicide attacks on cv's. If they want to keep their CV they should CAP it. Relying on the CLEOACK (tm) to keep the task force safe should be a mistake the enemy should pay dearly for.

I have my own method of dive bombing and surviving, but its pointless if hitting the CV with 2k of ord and 10 rockets wont affect it, since it takes 8k to sink it. And the cv is 100% operational until you sink it. So I say, what the heck and deliver the bombs in person, making 100% sure it hits and up again. The point is to sink the carrier.

Perhaps its lame, unrealistic, etc. But I find it even more lame to see an enemy cv without players CAP'ing it and that launches horde after horde and no way to stop it other than to put 8k on CV and protected by unholy ack (which, if the fleet is close enough to land, can make a defense be nearly useless since every con you engage will run to their protective AAA) and BVR flak "I-will-puff-you-if-you-go-above-5k" and supported by clipboard-targeted fleet guns (a decent fleet gunner can level a small field on his own.. and the fleet has 6 such guns).

Perhaps if the CV's took damage per each K of ord that hits it, things would change.

My suggestion:

1) Add 2 new ship types to the fleet. An OILER (aka oil tanker), a troop ship and a supply ship. If you sink an oiler the CV planes will lose 25% fuel for each oiler lost (for a total of 50% if both are sunk) . if the supply ships are sunk, only the smallest bombs and rockets will be avaliable. If the troop ships are sunk, no troops will be avaliable for lvt's. put 2 of each the task force and have these ships sink with 4k of ord.

2) CV DAMAGE // EFFECT
2k // fuel down by 25%
4k // fuel down by 50%, only small bombs and rockets avaliable
6k // fuel down by 75%, no ordenance
8k // swim swabbie!

3) Fleet only dies when ALL ships have been sunk. No more nonsense of CV sinking and all the ships dissapearing. CV would "respawn" in the fleet every 30 minutes, CA every 20, DD's every 10, supply/troop/oiler every 10 minutes.

This way a fleet can be crippled without it being sunk. If there is no CAP on the fleet, its a dead fleet. Sinking the CV would only get rid of the aerial aspect of the fleet, but the CA and DD's would still be a great threat to a field, especially if lvt's and PT's storm it. And since the fleet dont dissapear, the other country will have to sink every ship in the fleet to stop them.

[Wotan]

My squad leading up to hostile shores were able to repeatedly sink nme ships in 190f8s and survive easily.

Suicidal cv dweeds have been in ah since we got cvs. I dont understand it any more then you do.

I mean if I decide that I want to start dive bombing cvs I would go offline and practice until I could do it reasonably well.

Theres very little will on behalf of a lot of guys to survive their sorties. They simply want the attention that comes from bombing fhs cvs hq and radar. It means nothing to them to survive doing it. Or that there may be a more valuable but less glamorous target.

No doudt this thread will fill up with folks that claim they never suicide a cv. That they always plan on surviving and if you want to keep your cv a float then waste all your online time circling it.

I fly lw planes and really care nothing about this aspect of ah. There are however a large number of folks who do. I am a bit amazed that more folks dont speak out about this.

Unfortunately as long as they sink the boat and can laugh over the coms "I sunk there cv me tough man" you Naval guys will just have to deal with it I guess.

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by Tac

My suggestion:

1) Add 2 new ship types to the fleet. An OILER (aka oil tanker), a troop ship and a supply ship. If you sink an oiler the CV planes will lose 25% fuel for each oiler lost (for a total of 50% if both are sunk) . if the supply ships are sunk, only the smallest bombs and rockets will be avaliable. If the troop ships are sunk, no troops will be avaliable for lvt's. put 2 of each the task force and have these ships sink with 4k of ord.

2) CV DAMAGE // EFFECT
2k // fuel down by 25%
4k // fuel down by 50%, only small bombs and rockets avaliable
6k // fuel down by 75%, no ordenance
8k // swim swabbie!

3) Fleet only dies when ALL ships have been sunk. No more nonsense of CV sinking and all the ships dissapearing. CV would "respawn" in the fleet every 30 minutes, CA every 20, DD's every 10, supply/troop/oiler every 10 minutes.

This way a fleet can be crippled without it being sunk. If there is no CAP on the fleet, its a dead fleet. Sinking the CV would only get rid of the aerial aspect of the fleet, but the CA and DD's would still be a great threat to a field, especially if lvt's and PT's storm it. And since the fleet dont dissapear, the other country will have to sink every ship in the fleet to stop them.

Yeah, I like it!

curly

[eskimo2]

I do suicide attacks on CVs.
I figure once my bombs are away, what the heck do I want to stick around for?  If I sink it, great.  If I don't, then I'm ready to up again that much sooner.  Holding onto the bombs till 4 or 5 K also increases the likelyhood of putting them on the deck.

eskimo

[Tac]

Originally posted by Wotan


No doudt this thread will fill up with folks that claim they never suicide a cv. That they always plan on surviving and if you want to keep your cv a float then waste all your online time circling it.

Try cap'ing a fleet thats near an enemy field. You can get lots of kills just by staying at 15k cap. Every jabo, even the suicide jabo's, come in at around 10k and loaded with ord AND flying below 300mph because they are loaded. They make very easy kills. It also keeps your fleet alive for hours if you keep at it. In my opinion, if you want to keep your mobile airfield that cant be stopped unless you sink the CV, you better CAP it. 'Cause Mrs. Cleo cant protect the fleet from kamikaze attacks.

Unfortunately as long as they sink the boat and can laugh over the coms "I sunk there cv me tough man" you Naval guys will just have to deal with it I guess. [/B]

I feel the same when a cv group takes an enemy airfield. There's just no real challenge or sportsmanship in pitting a field that can be flattened and rendered defenseless against a fleet that isnt in the least affected until you sink the CV itself.

I forgot to put in my way of bombing and surviving a CV in the spirit of WW's post:

Fly 12k, line up with the CV from the back or from the front. Trim elevator fully down, cut engine to 20% and invert. Look UP and when you see the CV get near the center of your screen, cut engines pull into a dive, aim plane's nose about half a carrier lenght in front of the carrier , drop your eggs and rockets above 6k and pull out of dive  in the general direction of the CV's WAKE. This is important because if you pull to the front of the fleet the CA's AAA willg et you. if you pull to the side the DD will get you. pulling out to the rear of the CV is where there's the least AAA fire coming at you.

[Widewing]

I can't imagine that anyone will be able to maintain a proper CAP for long. Why? Because it is very easy to pull the CAP down with a few decoys. Moreover, there simply isn't the discipline in the MA to expect the high CAP to remain in position when juicy targets appear below. I've said it before, the MA is like Pee Wee soccer. Once the ball is in play, every kid races for it and forgets about playing their position. So, rather than move the ball, they just kick each other in the shins.

Unless you can get a Squad to fly the CAP (with a real, functioning command structure), the CAP will break down as soon as the enemy sends in a few aircraft at 5 to 10k. At that point, I, or someone of like mind,  will arrive at 15K in a Corsair or Tiffy and put 2,000 pounds of ord on the flight deck.  

Indeed, a properly organized assault on a CV is almost always successful if some fighters go in first to draw down any cover and tie them up. Meanwhile the attack aircraft arrive unmolested.

My regards,

Widewing

[Wotan]

I hate cvs and I usually arent flying where they are. I rarely use them.

I just think that if I were one to seek out and kill fleets I could do it succesfully and survive.

eskimo I always figured you were to busy milkrunning to worry about cvs

If you can convince someone to spend his online time cappping a fleet well more power to ya. But we both know that capping a fleet wont stop anyone. They are  looking to kill themselves anyway.

Like I said cvs arent my bag but if you enjoy killing yourself to sink one I wont stop ya

[Puck]

I can't believe you would suggest there's no discipline in the MA.  Next thing you'll be saying politicians occasionally shade the truth.

[SunKing]

What spices do you use to pickle your bombs? Maybe we could swap recipes.

[palef]

Very Thoughtful Post Widewing.

Thanks

Palef

[eddiek]

I agree with Tac, I think the CV should suffer cumulative damage, same as the airfields.
Acks IMO should be killable on all the ships, at least I would like to see it that way.
The "all or nothing" damage for the CV and other vessels has gotten old.
That, and make the fleet ack just a wee bit less selective in who it hits (friendly fire incidents to keep the low CAP from just flying around inside the ack umbrella and getting kill after kill without firing a shot) would bring a whole new light to the sea battles.

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by Wotan

eskimo I always figured you were to busy milkrunning to worry about cvs

Hehe Wotan, I definitly do some milkrunning, but when I see an enemy CV I often go into a trance and lose all train of thought... like a fly to one of those bug-zappers...  "must kill CV... must kill CV... must kill CV..."

I have a lot of experience in all the bombers, many jabo planes, PTs and mostly 8' guns.  I usually kill at least one each night that I'm logged on, and have killed over 20 in a single evening.

Long live torpedo squadron 8!

eskimo

[Wotan]

Hell I trained fer a week offline so I could kill a vh deack a field and have a ton of ammo to vulch


Then the damn flashin neon map markers came and ruined it

Now they spawn faster then i can kill um.

[eskimo2]

Originally posted by Wotan
Hell I trained fer a week offline so I could kill a vh deack a field and have a ton of ammo to vulch


Then the damn flashin neon map markers came and ruined it

Now they spawn faster then i can kill um.

Hehe, Jarbo and I figured out how to map to our joysticks:
o (BS) b /.ef

open doors, switch to 4K, drop bomb, end flight.

The ultimate car-bombing setup... The beauty was that the sortie would end befor the bomb would hit so that you wouldn't frag yourself.  We practiced it in the TA, then the next daythe release came out that eliminated car-bombing!
I never got a chance to car-bomb in the MA.

eskimo