New CV Strike aircraft (only 2 choices)

[brady]

When it comes right down to it their are only 2 good choices for a new CV strike aircraft. The Fairey Firefly or the Aichi B7A Grace.Some may argue for other Japanes aircraft like the Jill for instance but all but the Grace are lightly armed gun wise so lightly in fact one could consider their guns almost usless. Another point for the Grace is it's handeling and Preformance great spead for a plane of it's type and handeling preportadely compreable with that of a Zero.

 Fairey Firefly:

 Max Speed aprox 316 mph
 Four 20mm Hispanos
 Two 1,000pound bombs or Eight 60lb rockets.

Aichi B7A Grace

Max Speed 352 mph
 Two 20mm type 99 model 2 cannons
  one 13mm type 2 firing to the rear
  1,764lb's of bombs or a torpedo

[brady]

Aichi B7A:

[Nefarious]

But if i had to choose I would take the Grace. Though I would rather have Kate.

I think a early japanese torp plane would be more valuble to the planeset than a late war japanese torper. It might survive better in MA but I would rather chase down a kate in my Wildcat in a Midway Scenario than a Grace.

[Karnak]

B7A2.

We have enough British stuff for now and desparately need more Japanese stuff.

Kate would be useless, even in scenarios without a lot of other stuff being added.

B6N2 might work OK, but I think the B7A2 would be a better fit.

[Zigrat]

b7a2 would be a fantastic plane. it would do well in the main arena and would make for a planeset that would be complete enough to do some 1944 pac stuff -- admittedly not the best time period but it would be complete enough (a6m5, n1k2, ki-67, b7a2, ki61 would make a nice 1944 jap planeset)

[Zigrat]

personally tho i think a combo of d4y and b6n would be better though since they were produced in far far greater numbers and were heavily used for a relatively large period of the war

[brady]

Realy it boils down to how well a plane would fit into the plane set and how usefull it would be in the MA and wheather or not it fills a hole. The grace fits all those requirements better than any other Japanese plane in it's catagory. The numbers produced are realy not all that revelent, and the historical revelence is only a secondary consideration will you still be happy when you are firing those MG on the  Jill, or Juddy when you could be Hitting reall hard with a 20mm type 99 model 2(same gun as on the George) Personaly I would like to see a Japanese strike aircraft added that people would like to use, The Grace has fire power spead and manuaverability all things that would make it usefull, appealing in fact.

 Lets face it we will probably only get one shot at a Japanese strike plane in the near future, if were going to dream lets go all the way:)

[funkedup]

I'm thinking in terms of scenarios.  

An FAA (UK) CV strike plane would be fun, but we already have an Avenger, which saw extensive combat aboard Royal Navy carriers.  So there's not really a need.

So I want IJN.  But which IJN CV striker?

We don't have the fighters to run early war Pac scenarios.  So the IJN CV strike aircraft should be mid-late war.  That means Jill and Judy.  AFAIK Grace never flew a single combat mission from a CV.  Grace would be a great MA ride, but has no business flying off a CV in a historical setup.  If you want to recreate historical IJN vs USN CV battles with the current planeset, Judy and Jill are the way to go.

[brady]

Yes I would tend to agree with you Funked but why would HTC model a plane for use only in a scenario, shure you could do a Jill a realy great torpedo bomber possably the best of the entire war, but who is going to use it other than CT players or scenario goers. Personaly I would like a Jill or Judy for that very reasion, but I thnik, by far and large people would have more fun with a Grace, and we CT staffers or Scenario designers would just half to strech the truth a bit, heck for a long time every Japanese scenario had the JU 88 in it, No Japanese bomber ever came close to packing the ordance she did and that was a bit of a strech.

[Sclew]

Why not a Judy?

1100lb bomb or 2 550,  360mph top speed for d4y2?

Some guns but really- do heavier guns make a dam bit of difference in an AH bomber? Would you rely on your TBM guns to save your butt?

AND! it took out two carriers in the war- the princeton scuttled and one other (Lexington?) so badly damaged it had to sail home missing the war.

[funkedup]

True Brady.
They could get a lot of mileage out of a Grace.

[Jester]

Your being a PAIN Brady! YOU'RE THE ONLY ONE WHO WANT'S A GRACE!

How about an a/c that ACTUALLY operated from a CV - the GRACE only saw combat from land bases. The FIREFLY is a good idea for the FAA though.

IMHO the CV's should have "AT LEAST" one of each type - Fighter, Dive Bomber & Torpedo - indigenous to the country represented. Get a set from the CV's (especially the Axis side) and you will see more teamwork and squads useing the a/c from the carriers.

PLANES NEEDED:
---------------------------------------
USN: HELLDIVER or DAUNTLESS
FAA:  FIREFLY (or maybe even BARRACUDA to replace TBM)
IJN:   JUDY & JILL

[8ball]

How about the Fairey Fulmar?

[brady]

Ahh in a perfect world we could have a set like that Andijg, i would love to see it but I bet it is a long way off:)

     The Jill has no forward firing gun, non, zero, zip, nota...

     The Juddy as two 7.7mm type 97mg's firing forward.

     The Grace has two 20mm type 99 model 2 cannons firing    
      forward.

   What do you plan on doing after you drop your bombs? Die,go home, or kill somthing?

    Jill=die

    Juddy=go home (might as well cant kill with those guns)

    Grace=Kill somthing

     All three have basicaly the same defensive package that the TBM has. 13mm up top, 7.7 in the ventral position(not all had a ventral gun).

   I know the Grace did not fly a combat sortie off a CV they were all CV capable though, and the type was flown from CV's for testing(90% shure on this). Should we keep paying for the mistakes of our forfarthers? I mean realy If the US hadent prety much sunk all those Japanese flat tops so fast we could of had a ligitmate reasion to add it, that is if that is the only reasion not to add it. Because other wise it is clearly the better plane.

[Mathman]

Though I would rather see a complete set of CV planes (meaning a dive bomber and a tordonut), I would settle for the Grace.  My reasoning is that I think the USN and IJN should have their CV planes fleshed out before the British ones because they were the one's that used the CV extensively.

On a side note, if you find a book titled "The Fast Carriers," I highly recommend it.  It is about the development of the Fast Carrier Task Force (i.e. TF 58) and the tactics employed by it.  Lot of infighting within the USN about the roll of the CV and its offensive capabilities.  Very good reading.

-math