roads rivers and tracks...HTC

[NUTTZ]

After reading another thread about the speed of the barges and such. Could you change the code so the trains, Trucks and barges have a SET speed no matter what length the track, instead of the 10 minute destination to destination? Or at least make the speed of the convoy adjustable per track and let US figure it out? The reasoning is IF you set a river to resupply a field and set it's track 25 tiles ( 1 full sector) the speed of the barges is 150 MPH, to get this speed at an acceptable speed it can only be 3 miles away from starting point to destination.

I know your working on the "Zone" strat, so could you please take this into consideration?

Thanx
NUTTZ

[hitech]

No

[hitech]

What that would do is totaly mess up resuply times, longer roads would increase the down times of all objects.

[NUTTZ]

I really appreciate the second answer since the first one was very abrupt. Looking at your quote below thats EXACTLY what I am looking for, different down times for farther feilds. Wouldn't this seam more "realistic"?  without messing up gameplay?  

Again, I have no knowledge on the interworkings of AH, And I know one small change is all intertwined into the whole ball of wax., So excuse my ignorance.

What I am trying to do in my maps is make the farthest feilds ( feilds at the front lines) resupply take longer, and closer feilds have faster resupplies. The farther the enemy goes into the other side the harder it is to take feilds.
This can be accomplished many ways. less feilds for the side means they are more massed together in a smaller area ,Via more defenders (sheer numbers). Larger feilds, more for enemy to destroy to capture. and the opposite effect would be smaller feilds at the front lines. And Resupply, Now I have to admit the whole strat stuff is new to me and I am learning this as I go. But as it stands any resupply depot or station cannot be more that 4 miles from its destination to have any speed that duplicates real life speeds. The BBS doesn't show emotions and feelings so I want you to know I'm Not squeaking in any way shape or form, I'm in your corner, and hope you don't feel from your abrupt answer I am pestering you in any way. If resupply depots need to be within 4 miles , then so be it, I'll work with that. I've always worked with Tools YOU have gratiuosly supplied.


NUTTZ

Originally posted by hitech
What that would do is totaly mess up resuply times, longer roads would increase the down times of all objects.

[NUTTZ]

Viper17, you wish i don't ask questions or post in this forum anymore? Remember this is a game If i EVER felt i was "told off" believe me I wouldn't be back!

You can go back threw the 3 year history of AH and you won't find 1 post from me tearing down any aspect of HTC.

NUTTZ

Originally posted by Viper17
YAY hitech:D Thats the way to tell em:D

[Sabre]

It seems to be a question of both immersion (150 mph barges ) and arena settings flexibility.   HiTech, during the build up to the Sicily scenario, there was a discussion you participate in regarding the need/desire by CM's to be able to select default down times for all object types, during which I seem to recall you mentioning this feature might be added at some point (right now, it is set in the terrain editing process, and is not an arena setting).  There is already a set up feature to allow strat resupply to be disabled totally.  It would seem on the surface that Nuttz idea to be able to set a default train/truck/barge (TTB) speed is merely an extention of those tools.

Obviously with a default TTB speed the terrain builder would have to be conscious of the interelationship between default downtime and the reduction in downtime caused by each resupply arrival.  Make the TTB speed too slow, or the route too long, and the object will rebuild before even one TTB arrives.  Of course, if you can also adjust the default downtime for objects, you can insure this won't happen.

Right now, the variable used to determine TTB speed is the length of the resupply route, from which the program determines how fast to make the TTB move (I'm surmising, as I've obviously never looked at the source code).  So is this idea undesireable from a programming standpoint, or are you (HiTech) concerned about making the MA strat settings to unpredictable?  Both are valid concerns, of course.  Flexibility is good, but too much leads to chaos.  As this feature (default TTB speed) would mainly be used in scenarios/events/CT(maybe), rather than in the MA, they may simply be too much work to implement for the expected return on HTC's time investment.  Also a perfectly reasonable answer:).

Sabre

[pokie]

I know where you are coming from Nuttz.  

1) Each Barge, Convoy, Train reduces downtime by 30 minutes which means it takes minimum downtime of 30 minutes for 2 hour downtime items ( 3 deliveries ) and 50 minutes for 3 hour downtime items ( 5 deliveries ).

I can see Nuttzs idea but a compromise could be, let the map builder control the resupply time ( how long it takes the barge, train or convoy to reach its destination but it would be the same for all 3 types ).

Note!  

Barges and Convoys keep moving unless all are destroyed while Trains can be stopped if you kill the Locomotive, but I guess thats where the Gun cars for the Train come in while the Barges and Convoys don't have protection.
The rivers ( running on land textures ) can not be crossed by Manned Vehicles without dying ( hmmm? this statement is incorrect now??? you can pass over them )  but they can be crossed when the river passes over the water textures ( note the river disappears in that section )


These are just some thing rolling around in my head.  I'm with Nuttz HiTech, just thoughts not complaints.


Barges could be used for short distances, Convoys for medium and Trains for Long distances but instead of multiple deliveries have just 1.  All could still use the same time but instead of the 10 minutes X 3 trips use 30 minutes X 1 trip.

Barges 30 mph ( 20 mph may be better but distance becomes shorter ) = 15 miles in 30 minutes, worth -90 minutes of downtime.
Convoys 50 mph ( ? 45 mph ? )  = 25 miles in 30 minutes, worth -90 minutes of downtime.
Trains 100 mph = 50 miles in 30 minutes, worth -90 minutes of downtime.

Then I know that this could cause the 50 minutes for the 3 hour downtime items to become 60 minutes for resupply because it would require 2 trips or you could reduce its delivery time to 2 trips of 25 minutes.

Then again you could have trains only resupply the Factories ( country items ) and Barges and Convoys supply the Field items.

hehe   just dripple,  lost my thoughts

Pokie

[hitech]

Pookie you are forgetting about the factory loading of supplies on the convoys. The way it works is some of the convoys/bardges/trains do not carry some supplie types based on the factory/city damages.

So with a 30 min travel time it only gives 30 min resolution to the resuply rates based on factory damage.

The system we have now was based on the problems with the previous road system, basicly there was so much flexiblity, it becomse almost imposible to document the damage/repair times.

The terrains we currently have under production have about 400 road systems in them. If each one would vary it becomes very difficult to explane and document how all the strat effects happen.

[Esme]

just a thought... can there be multiple supply TTB's on the way along a single route? If yes (ie: it's both possible and doesnt cause too big an FPS hit) then there shouldnt be any problem in having routes of any length you like. Whilst it might take several hours for a truck or barge convoy to get from A to B, there might well be several convoys all heading along the same route, thus the frequency at which the destination get supplied would still be adequate.

It'd also mean a big increase in the amount of vehicles populating roads, and thus more targets to attack/defend... :-)

Main thing is that I feel that as much as possible should be CM-tweakable, with MA-suitable settings as default, so that us folks wanting more historical type games can have fields that get knocked out for several hours, trucks doing 40 and barges maybe 5 or 10 mph, etc.

The inbuilt strat/supply system is easily Aces High's biggest plus point, IMO, really lifts the gameplay up a step from what I've been used to before.  I'm really looking forward to the updated strat system thats been announced, that should be even better. Now if we can just work out some way to have supply vehicles go at realistic speeds, I'll be one very happy bunny.

Very much want to have a go at terrain-making myself, too. Have copies of 1939 maps of England, so would love to set up a terrain with a lifelike main road/rail net for my Bomberpiloten to smush... :-)

Esme

[BenDover]

strange, it didn't post, so i'll repost as most as i can remember.

instead of all these crazy ideas, how about this one?

no matter what, a convoy would spawn every 10 mins, even if the previous one hasn't finished yet.

so how does that sound?

[NUTTZ]

ESMe, Yes and No. You can't have more than 1 convoy per road. Althought you can make a custom convoy. But what you can do (which I do) is lay roads over roads so it looks like 1 road, and you assign 1 convoy per road so if you lay 3 tracks over themselves with 1 convoy per road you have 3 convoys supplying ( Pokie's Brainstorm). I did this on a few of my maps because I am Not up to par with the whole strat workings, and I cannot Understand Nor think every field needs a city depot within 4 miles to resupply it. Also HTC is Revamping how the strat system works.

HiTech I understand you need to keep some things uniform so people know all feilds take X amount of time to rebuild and therefor KNOW how long they have to get troops in and ACks/hangers and such will respawn. I did read a few post about 1000MPH trains and 300MPH barges.  I am only trying to find a common ground. My original intent from my post was to make trains lets say go 90 MPH PERIOD! no matter how long the track, barges 24 Knots PERIOD, truck convoys 50-60 MPH PERIOD!.

HiTech, or anybody else. Could you enlighten me or Hint how/what the new strat system will work opposed to how it DID work.? how will it intermingle?  I am making mistakes left and right, and don't care as long as i learn from them. But shead alittle info our way HiTech.


Pokie, I noticed if you destroy half the convoy, the rest of the trucks STOP. I would also like to know alittle more information on this.

Bottom Line, I am just asking for away to get the resupply strats to alittle more "realistic" speed. Hitech if you have ANY suggestions or formula your using now Please share it with us Serious Mapmakers who struggled with the TE since it's debute.

I also noted some post were removed.
( probably for the better)

I appreciate the people that understand I'm not squeaking , demanding or Pushy, But want a discussion thats informative.

Thanx,
NUTTZ
btw  Tunisia KICKS ASS!!!!!  Lol, had to get that in:)

[pokie]

HiTech, or anybody else. Could you enlighten me or Hint how/what the new strat system will work opposed to how it DID work.? how will it intermingle? I am making mistakes left and right, and don't care as long as i learn from them. But shead alittle info our way HiTech.  

  Isn't that where, if you were told, then you would have to be put to death!   Just kiding

NUTTZ
btw Tunisia KICKS ASS!!!!! Lol, had to get that in  

Yes Nuttz, I would have to agree, excellent job on Tunisia, plus I would say you are passionate about building terrains and are particular not squeaky.

Like I've said before, questions and thoughts in here, can only be a good thing.  

no matter what, a convoy would spawn every 10 mins, even if the previous one hasn't finished yet  

I had thought about that too BenDover! but then changed my mind about it.

Pokie, I noticed if you destroy half the convoy, the rest of the trucks STOP. I would also like to know alittle more information on this.

Nuttz, when did you have this happen with your convoy.  I had a 8 truck convoy and a 8 barge convoy not stop when 7 of them had been destroyed?  This could be different now with version 109.2 because I know when the convoys/bardges/trains first came out that rivers couldn't be crossed with vehicles but now you can? so I don't know what to say.


Also!!! for those of you who haven't been to the Combat Theater Forum, then you should check this out.

Here's what tunisia looks like...
...and will hopefully play like ( movie file ) :

http://www.matthoffman.cc/bb/hblair/Tunisia.rm
__________________
hblair
The ASSASSINS

Pokie

[BenDover]

My original intent from my post was to make trains lets say go 90 MPH PERIOD! no matter how long the track, barges 24 Knots PERIOD, truck convoys 50-60 MPH PERIOD!.

that plus my idea would work rather well, btw pokie (or should i say pookie? ), what made you change my mind?

Also!!! for those of you who haven't been to the Combat Theater Forum, then you should check this out.

yeah, very cool movie, even has the bridges (btw NUTTZ, can you send that to me please?)

[hitech]

The multiple trucks on road dosn't work well do to object id issues. In the end that would just get us back to where we are with long roads.

Nothing is realy chaing to the strat system. The only thing that is changing is there will be multiple zones, each consiting of city & all factory types. The owner of the primary airfield in the zone gets the supplies from these factorys, all other enemy fields do not get supplied in the zone.

This will have the effect of needing to supply your own fields as you advance into a zone , until the primary field is captured.

1. zone for each country will contain the HQ and is not capurtable.

[BenDover]

damn, i knew if there'd be a problem, that would be it