Time for a new arena

[funkedup]

We obviously have a schism between the gamers and the simmers.  How about a new arena to make both crowds happy errr less whiny?

[Paxil]

And to cut the #'s in half. =(  In the AM there are about 50 or so pilots on. I think it would hurt a lot to split this # into two arenas. When I left 3 or so months ago I thought AH would be large enough to have 2 arenas by now... but it looks to be about the same #.

[Fester']

the gamers don't mind putting their insufferable preferences and gameplay concessions upon the simmers but the gamers are totally against the simmers leaving their quake arena and having their own arena upon which to sneak around in and fight historical matchups

[DeeZCamp]

AGREED FUNKED....


10000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000000000000000000 000000000000%    

make an ultra realistic arena, with No icons... (or heres a dumb compromise.. A red or green dot "." ) over the plane telling if they are friend or foe.... THATS IT..

Make realistic Engine Control... Mixture/rpm... Overheat.. (REAL COCKPIT MANAGAMENT STUFF)

ULTRA REALISTIC FLIGHT PHYSICS

NO DIMMING DOWN OF CONTROLS..

GET RID OF the "DONT MOVE YOUR CONTROLS TO RAPIDLY" message.

others to follow ..

[funkedup]

Deez:  Some of those are a bit extreme and I'm not sure they would work.  And some of them are already in place.  In any case, the specifics of the arena setup are best left for another discussion.  Obviously some experimentation is required.  But as long as we have just one arena with settings that never change, this experimentation can never occur.

The important part is this:  It's clear that there is a substantial group of players who like arena play but would like some significantly different settings than what we have in the MA.

Paxil:  Did it occur to you that part of the reason AH is not large enough for two arenas is that fact that AH does not offer some sort of history-based alternative to the MA?  I personally know of 4-5 guys who did the AH free trial but left for this very reason.  They loved the graphics, flight models, gunnery/damage models, but couldn't stomach the gameplay concessions.  These aren't guys who posted on the BBS, just guys I knew from elsewhere who came quietly and left quietly.  I wonder how many more guys like that HTC loses every two weeks?  

You have a valid point though - underpopulated arenas could drive players away.  But if you have 50 online and can't find a fight, something's wrong.  Maybe the map is too big?  In the end it's a compromise that HTC have to work out themselves.  What's worse, the number of paying accounts lost due to decreased per-arena populations caused by opening multiple arenas, or the number of paying accounts lost due to lack of an alternative arena for less "gamey" flying?

[ 08-01-2001: Message edited by: funkedup ]

[Hangtime]

Agreed Funked... and good post.

We need a HA.

[dtango]

Having an HA is a-ok with me.

Think about what you are saying though when you bring up simmers vs. gamers.  When it all boils down, it's still only a different form of gameplay as funked has eloquently pointed out in his response to DZ.

The gameplay that is being sought in an HA is certainly a more challenging style of flying and fighting.  That doesn't necessarily make it anymore realistic.

Don't ask me why this gets under my skin   .  I haven't psycho-analyzed myself.  Maybe its because that being labeled a gamey-quake-lover makes my skin crawl since I think of myself as a simmer!  Maybe I think of myself as a historian who cares about historical accuracy when things are mentioned in the name of historical accuracy!  I don't know.  Anyhow...I've said my peace  .

[ 08-01-2001: Message edited by: dtango ]

[funkedup]

Well the historians can never agree on history so it seems likely that a bunch of flight sim geeks won't always agree completely on how to simulate it.  

[dtango]

LOL!!!! Very well put my friend, very well put!

[skernsk]

We need a MA
We need a MA with no dar
We need a MA with dar and no icons

We need a HA
We need a HA with an early planeset
We need a HA with no icons no dar and an early planest
We need........


My point lets not get into too many details yet DeeZ...start with a basic Historical Arena with realistic radar and perhaps short range icons.

THEN butcher the toejam out of it so nobody but you and three others THINK it's fun.

[funkedup]

ROFL Skernsk!

[DeeZCamp]

I would rather have the most realistic (wich is more challenging by the way) Arena that RIDS of ALL "GAMEPLAY" options...

I am a HARDCORE Flightsim enthusiast. IF poeple want to have LARGE placards above the plane that they are tracking in the sky, well.. that is thier preference. I have never seen a Huge placard in the Sky when I have gone up in reality, and From what I see here in Aces... THE distance/size issue,... Is not an Issue to me.  Hi res/low res.. I can still see the plane just as well.

range Finders... Please rid them... Poeple rely on them when to shoot. This is unrealistic. (and makes it Easier) (less judgment on the pilots part)

Radar, Have it.. but have it as it were in WWII. If pilots could not see exact locations of where the enemy was, then we shouldnt either. Possibly implement option to query the tower, as well as general radio chatter from allied forces to create the "Grapevine" network, that information is passed along.  That would be more realistic, as well as create the need to work more as a cohesive unit.

Historical matchups,... Enable those maps that have historical fighting going on, and a separate part containing a different theater of operations.  Something to the likes of a dueling arena, but alittle larger with a Separation between worlds.

People who are willing to actually be wingman, and fly missions, that are enveloping. not just go bomb that base and try to get a goon there. ( this is already being adressed with more strategic targets.."trains com to mind") <S> HTC good idea cant wait to see how it turns out.

Airbases/Naval groups(ships) allow for Every single fleet weapon to be HUMAN controlled. NO AI.  THIS includes FLAK...

more to follow these are just a few

[Nifty]

Originally posted by DeeZCamp:
I would rather have the most realistic (wich is more challenging by the way) Arena that RIDS of ALL "GAMEPLAY" options...

I am a HARDCORE Flightsim enthusiast. IF poeple want to have LARGE placards above the plane that they are tracking in the sky, well.. that is thier preference. I have never seen a Huge placard in the Sky when I have gone up in reality, and From what I see here in Aces... THE distance/size issue,... Is not an Issue to me.  Hi res/low res.. I can still see the plane just as well.
Turn your enemy Icons off then, that option is there (friendly icons only)

range Finders... Please rid them... Poeple rely on them when to shoot. This is unrealistic. (and makes it Easier) (less judgment on the pilots part)
same as above...  tho I'd be satisfied with a rate of closure indicator as opposed to a range finder myself.

Radar, Have it.. but have it as it were in WWII. If pilots could not see exact locations of where the enemy was, then we shouldnt either. Possibly implement option to query the tower, as well as general radio chatter from allied forces to create the "Grapevine" network, that information is passed along.  That would be more realistic, as well as create the need to work more as a cohesive unit.
I agree with the principle.  Not sure on best implementation for this.

Historical matchups,... Enable those maps that have historical fighting going on, and a separate part containing a different theater of operations.  Something to the likes of a dueling arena, but alittle larger with a Separation between worlds.
fly in the historical events!!  My squad has parents(meaning some people ARE parents and have to juggle flying time around time spent with children), people who work weekends, etc, and they all seem to make an event here and there.  Some of us only miss our designated squad event once every few months. (this is to say that everyone can make an event once in awhile.)

People who are willing to actually be wingman, and fly missions, that are enveloping. not just go bomb that base and try to get a goon there. ( this is already being adressed with more strategic targets.."trains com to mind") <S> HTC good idea cant wait to see how it turns out.
I agree that more needs to be added to the "simmer" crowd in terms of targets for missions.

Airbases/Naval groups(ships) allow for Every single fleet weapon to be HUMAN controlled. NO AI.  THIS includes FLAK...
yes on allow all to be mannable. absolutely 100% no on no AI flak.  A TG in AH has how many total fleet weapons???  You want everyone of them to be manned???  Same with all the airbases.  So you don't want anyone flying planes anymore...  interesting...  We need AI flak, tho maybe it shouldn't be as accurate.

more to follow these are just a few

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: Nifty ]

[hazed-]

havent read all the thread but essentially i totally agree with funcked.
Bring a HA or at least an arena where theres much more strat and planning needed and id return to AH in an instant.
as it is i used a friends account to have a fly the other night and although there were new maps it was exactly the same 'game'.
sorry not for me at the moment.where are the roads,tracks,bridges,trains?  
seemed like nothing had changed at allto me just the landscape and if anything even more furballing  

[Cobra]

I like donuts.

Cobra