And the Winner is? F4U-1C

[indian]

So Whats your point? When the flaps are fixed on these two planes they are going to get even better. Does it realy make a difference the game is still fun and I still use most of the planes in the game. I do use the F4u-1c and it is a very good killer. In it I have been shot down by everything that flys. So what the point This thread is a repeat of the one still going. So whats the point get rid of the F4u-1c get rid of all cannons. Take them off the spit take them off the 190's and the 109s. Get rid of the la5fn cause only a couple of guys use it.

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Tommy (INDIAN) Toon
  1st Aces High Trainer Corps.
Home of The Allied Fighter Wing A.F.W.
A.F.W. Homepage

[Dnil]

If it was all cannons then the stats would be somewhat equal, its not, just the f4u cannons.  Guess what the game is not still fun.  Least in my squad the unhappiness has started.  The stats are not just all vulch kills, how can u prove they are?  Think I have 5 sorties with vulches in it now, bout 25 kills total.  Thats it. Just check my stats, my story is similar to mino's k/d is MUCH higher than any other plane.  Sortie count is low to.  If it was just the pilot then I would be a stud in every plane correct?  Well im not, just the uber hog.  In a squad now that flies german iron, so I'm putting away the hog and flying that now.  It needs to be seriously looked at.  Something smells funny.  and its not udie

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Dnil
902nd Immortal Jaguars
Part time aircraft restorer. www.kingwoodcable.com/jheuer

[weazel]

   

Does it realy make a difference the game is still fun and I still use most of the planes in the game.

 Does it make a difference-yes,in mine and a lot of others opinion it makes a huge difference and detracts from gameplay. Yes the game is still fun-but a lot less than it was before this beast was let out of the pig pen. I have seen very few people who can fly it worth a damn-99% of the weenies who fly it rely on the 1 ping cannons to H/O,H/O,and H/O-did I say H/O yet? The only fights I`ve had where the pilots(1%) displayed any actual skills in it were with kbman and pongo <S>  The rest just rely on the H/O and snapshot ability of the cannon.I will say I`ve never been a fan of the RPS and don`t really want to see it here,but unless some other means of limiting its availability can`t be found then it should be implemented ASAP.

weazel has 22 kills and has been killed 35 times against the F4U-1C.

weazel has 5 kills and has been killed 0 times against the F4U-1D.
 
weazel has 29 kills and has been killed 10 times against the P-51D.

weazel has 16 kills and has been killed 0 times against the Bf 109G-10.

weazel has 43 kills and has been killed 34 times against the Spitfire Mk IX.

weazel has 15 kills and has been killed 19 times against the Spitfire Mk V.

weazel has 24 kills and has been killed 17 times against the P-38L.

weazel has 2 kills and has been killed 0 times against the Bf 109G-2.

weazel has 1 kill and has been killed 1 time against the Bf 109F-4.

weazel has 4 kills and has been killed 4 times against the C.205.
 
weazel has 2 kills and has been killed 1 time against the Fw 190A-8.

weazel has 22 kills and has been killed 21 times against the N1K2.

weazel has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times against the La-5FN.

weazel has 4 kills and has been killed 1 time against the B-26B.

weazel has 6 kills and has been killed 0 times against the B-17G.

 
 Now whats wrong with this picture? There`s no way you can attribute this to poor flying on my part-I do well against every other plane in the arena-so whats the reason for my poor stats against the F4U1c?(BTW I don`t take off from vulched fields so throw that lame excuse out the window) I say yank the damned thing from the game or make it available for scenarios only or a very limited time period in the main arena,the fun factor(fights that rely on ACM and not spray and pray dweebery) will go up for a lot of people.

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 JG2 "Richthofen"

Aces High Instructor Corps

[This message has been edited by weazel (edited 03-27-2000).]

[Ghosth]

First off I'm not sure what all the fuss is about.

Point 1, a low hawg is a dead hawg. They are my favorite targets to find low & slow (esp climbing out on auto & talking!)

Point 2 IF they have alt they are dangerous.

Emmmm gee what isn't?

The thing that surprises me is that I don't hear more complaints about the Niki.
(yes my fav ride)

Shrugs

Everyone fly's, Everyone dies.
You do your best & take your chances  


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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels

[AKDejaVu]

 

weazel has 15 kills and has been killed 19 times against the Spitfire Mk V

So.. I guess this one will be next?  Any idea why you might have such a bad record against a plane with one of the worst records in the arena?  Could it be that these statistics don't really mean crap?

The LA-5 has one of the worst records in the arena too.  Unfortunately, in the last 3 tours I have a record of 1:4 against them.  From my perspective, these are uberplanes.  I mean.. I could fly one and find out otherwise... but what fun is that?  Another strange thing in regards to the LA-5... I added up the stats from 30 pilots that posted in another thread.  The average was a 2.5:1 ratio in this plane.  Some of them had a 10:1 ratio.

These statistics are not indicative of much.  They are easy to inflate and just as easy to take out of context.  My record in an F4u-1C: 115:20.  My Record in an F4u-1C when going up against an enemy co-alt/co-speed or better: 0:15.

If you want to kill an F4u-1C.. get above it.  If you can't figure out how to do that, then you really should be spending more time in the air and less on the forum.

AKDejaVu

[Minotaur]

Indian;  

Do not be angered at my words.  I know how you feel about the 1C, 1D and the F4U in general.  You would fly a F4U no matter what version it was.  My pointless piont was not pointed at you, nor pointed at others like you.    

The last thing I want is to have any plane removed.  That however; is not going to stop me from giving out a few a "Wedgy's".  Only wear the shoe if it fits.

Realistically, the 1C is not getting all that many more kills.  The Spit IX has more, and several planes are fairly close.  I would have placed the success of the 1D above the P-51D, had there never been a AH F4U-1C.  On a par with the LW Uber planes.  

IMO, the F4U-1C is in a way very good for AH community.  This is by allowing early success of snapshot kills, because many times that is all the shot you get.  Thus building the initial confidence in players that will continue to play and pay.

What really really makes me wonder.  Why didn't the Americans put these 20mm guns in all mid - late war fighters.  At least use a 2x20mm + 2(4)x50cal configuration.  Why did they stick with the 6(8)x50cal configuration for wing mounted guns?  Didn't even the F-80 have 6x50cals?

If modeled correctly in AH, the 50cal kind of sucks by comparison.  Even the lethality of the P-38 is noticably less, than lets say a 109 with 3x20mm.

Makes no sense...   Politics maybe?

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[weazel]

   

So.. I guess this one will be next? Any idea why you might have such a bad record against a plane with one of the worst records in the arena? Could it be that these statistics don't really mean crap?

weazel has 1 kill and has been killed 2 times in the B-17G against the Spitfire Mk V.
 
weazel has 1 kill and has been killed 2 times in the B-26B against the Spitfire Mk V.
 
weazel has 2 kills and has been killed 1 time in the Bf 109G-10 against the Spitfire Mk V.

weazel has 0 kills and has been killed 1 time in the Spitfire Mk IX against the Spitfire Mk V.

weazel has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times in the Spitfire Mk V against the F4U-1C.

weazel has 1 kill and has been killed 0 times in the C.205 against the Spitfire Mk V.
 
weazel has 8 kills and has been killed 9 times in the Fw 190A-8 against the Spitfire Mk V.

weazel has 1 kill and has been killed 2 times in the N1K2 against the Spitfire Mk V.

I wondered how long it would take for this to come up,the difference is 4 kills while flying a bomber-otherwise I`m 50%.Whats next the old WB 1.11 UFO P-38 argument?

"I fly it because my granpappy did in WW II"

 The statistics are a valid and comprehensive tool for tracking arena statistics,are you accusing people of intentionally losing fights to the C.O.S?
This excuse doesn`t wash either-next?


[This message has been edited by weazel (edited 03-27-2000).]

[Duckwing6]

Weazel:  What are you complaining about as you and your Squad are flying mainly LW inventory.. ??? The 109 is "THE ROCKETSHIP" talking about climb and acceleration .. most of them easily outfly the HOG and with them gondolas and 30mm cannons they easily have the 1 PING - KILL capability like the HOG does..

[Minotaur]

AKDejaVu;

 

If you want to kill an F4u-1C.. get above it. If you can't figure out how to do that, then you really should be spending more time in the air and less on the forum.

LOL  

Ever fight Torque?  He will munch your lunch if you think this will work on an F4U-1C every time.

BTW, you sound like you are the only one who flies and the only one who knows what is what.  Some have 200-300 or more hours in AH.

Now, why can't you admit the F4U-1C is Uber?  

At any event, "Good Luck!" in the unfriendly skies...  

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[Jinx]

Ehh, guys..

You do realize that the only difference between the –1C and the –1D is the guns?
The first post here indicates that the –1D is the worst plane in the sim, and the –1C is the best. Based on those statistics I think we can conclude that the only thing ‘uber’ with the plane is the guns, no? So don’t get in front of it.. that should be easy enough since the plane is the worst one out there.. right?

I agree that the cannon hog is a vultchers dream, but I don’t understand the rest of the complaints. If you get kilt by a F4U in a Spit, you are just not doing it right.  

This has probably been said before, but I haven’t read all the ranting in the F4U-1C treads, sorry.

  -Jinx

[AKDejaVu]

 

Ever fight Torque? He will munch your lunch if you think this will work on an F4U-1C every time

Err.. ever fight Camo in a 190?  Or aper in a BF 109G-6?  Maybe Vila in P-51D? I didn't know you wanted to hand pick pilots to prove your point.  Take those exceptional pilots out of the mix and you get down to the realistic effects of flying against an F4u-1C.  Its not fair to list uber-pilots as a reason that a plane is uber.

 

You do realize that the only difference between the –1C and the –1D is the guns?

You do realize that the other difference is the pilots that are flying them?  Once again.. I did a check of 30 pilots that posted to a different F4u-1C thread.  They averaged a 3.2 k/d ratio in the F4u-1C and a measly 3.6 in the F4u-1D.  Amazing.. the same pilots flyinng two birds that's only difference was cannons... and the 1D had a better record.

AKDejaVu



[This message has been edited by AKDejaVu (edited 03-27-2000).]

[Minotaur]

AKDejaVu;

So I guess what say you proves our point?  I believe that if you check more broady across the board you will see that more people do better in this plane than others.  The stats prove this with out any doubt.  

Aper?
 

1st Runner Up:
1.19 --> 109G-6 - 1215 / 1018

Camo?
 

2nd Runner Ups:
1.16 --> 190A-8 - 2145 / 1845

Schmucko Mino?
 

The Winner:
2.00 --> F4U-1C - 10517 / 5254

Look at the numbers.  The lower the numbers the more one or two people really effect the outcome.  

The 1C has a K/D of 2.0 and the 1D has .63.  This means that alot, if not most of the players flying it have a higher K/D.  You don't have to be an "Uber Pilot" to do better than average in this plane.  Consider they are both about the same plane except for the guns.

So go ahead admit it.  The F4U-1C is an "Uber Plane".    

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 03-27-2000).]

[Jinx]

AKDejaVu, I think that is what I was trying to say. I think the F4U, any version, is the next worst plane out there (only the 190 is worse). The only thing a bad pilot can do in a bad, but fairly fast, plane is head on everything around. With cannons they will get some kills doing that to, but only against others that run around trying to do the same thing. And they would probably do even better in a 109 with 30mm gondolas or something.

Things will get a lot different when we get the flaps fixed, some planes will gain a lot then. The P38, F4U and P51 most notably I think. But right now, surviving in a hog is hard work and takes lots of planing ahead.

The thing a good stick can do in the cannon hog is end a turn fight at the first snapshot opportunity, that is quicker, easier and more efficient then maneuvering for the tracking shot it takes to get a kill with the .50s. This can make all the difference when you engage more the one foe. But that doesn’t change the fact that almost anything out there can easily outmaneuver you and you have to get the target in front of you to shoot it. With reasonable SA you should never have to get killed by a hog, unless it is driven by one of very few, very good, pilots. And then the version doesn’t matter much.

Mino, I know you are just out trolling, but I think you make a lot of unnecessary damage when you don’t keep the facts straight. There is nothing ‘uber’ about the F4U, just the cannons. And there are bigger cannons out there.

-Jinx

[Kieren]

Sorry, surviving in a hawg is not hard. Killing in an F4U-1C is E A S Y. It isn't the plane, it's the cannons. The Hispano is the best weapon in the game, and the 1C has four of 'em (4 fingers of God). You hit something with them and big flaming hunks pop off.

Time on target necessary for a kill is very small compared to other craft. You almost always have the option to run (if you spent 5 minutes climbing before the fight). It is very difficult to angle fight defensively against a 1C because you cannot give up ANY shots against it (against about any other plane you can allow some hits if in a bad spot).

I'm not saying that the 1C should be removed, but tell me what you'd rather see overhead- 5 F4U-1C's or 5 109 G10's? Me, I would rather see the 109's because they have to get close to kill me. The 1C only needs 700-1.0.

[Fariz]

Hi all,

Aper and Hristo are the only 109 pilots who can fly the plane. Sorry other 109 pilots, but I say what I think. Both better than me, and both fly it absolutly different way, hristo is flying for survive, aper goes into battle against odds and do not care to run away.

Fariz