The CORRECT way to shoot a bomber down.

[Hans]

A recent tiff with Raubvogle led me to explain that high atlitude bombers are not invincible.  I've shot them down with alot of success (they always seems to be a bomber headed to my city every hour).

I've also mostly been attacted by what I must guess are new players.  None have studied the problems of making an attack on a bomber, and almost all come from behind in a straight and level attack.  I assume that not many people actually have flown bombers themselves and do not know how easy it is to shoot somebody down like that.

So, here is my list of cardinal rules for shooting down bombers.

1. Do not attack from behind or below (which Raub did twice, and the results are fairly obvious. In his defense it was quite evident he was furious with me, and wanted to shoot me ASAP).

2. Don't always attack. Yes, I said that. Don't shoot at the bomber. Just by being there in a fighter, you have nuetered that bomber from dropping his bombs. My brother saved our CV fleet simply by flying between the fleet and an enemy bomber, acting like a blocker.

3. Attack in pairs. One from the left, one from the right. The fighter that gets shot at should break off a bit, while the other goes in for the kill. This is a surefire tactic. The only defense is a bomber formation.

4. Use the right aircraft. Latewar German fighters are designed for bomber intercept. Use the Fw190D9 or better yet the Bf109G10 with gun pods and the 30mm cannon.

5. WEP to altitude. I did a test and the Bf109G10 with gun pods starting on the runway and it will run out of WEP when it hits 36k of altitude. Shadow your target untill your engine cools off a bit to WEP in and make your attack runs.

6. Patience. Wait for reinforcments, and definetly wait untill your above your enemy. Call for help, and call often.  Somebody will usually come to your aid (use him as that distraction I mentioned above).

7. Use sweeping attack runs. Never fly straight at the enemy. Come from the sides, take a short shot, and get out.  Repeat a few times.  Most of my bomber kills are not in the first try.

8. Shoot the wing off. A wing is easier to destroy than the whole bomber. Make a pact with any reinforcements to agree on a wing to shoot at. In WarBirds my JG51 squad all agreed ahead of time that the righthand wing is now and forever the target. No discussion in combat required. Shoot at the wingtip.

9. Don't not use those funky Luftwaffe rockets. They'll slow you down. Take guns instead.

10. Fake passes. Make a few runs, but never fly directly at the bomber, and not in a constant direction either.  Make him waste ammo, though this is dangerous (I've lost alierons and engine oil this way).


The main key for success is a partner.  One has to distract the gunner to let the second fighter sail in for a easy kill.

Hans.

[juzz]

Great stuff!   Doesn't work against Arados though...  

[Fishu]

One problem comes also from short distances (not really time to set up for an attack)
and fast speed of the bombers.

See that bombers are going at full throttle all the time without any worry of overheating the engines.

short distance + non overheating engines / fast bombers = not too good combination to setup the attack.

[Voss]

When I kill a buff properly it dies without shooting, and in one pass. Unfortunately, it's very easy to mess up and become open to gunfire. Patience is the key rather then a particular approach vector. Just my observation.  

Buffs are hard to miss. heh

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Voss
13th TAS

[Dead Man Flying]

 

Originally posted by Hans:
1. Do not attack from behind or below (which Raub did twice, and the results are fairly obvious. In his defense it was quite evident he was furious with me, and wanted to shoot me ASAP).

Generally some very good advice here.  I do have issue with this point, however.  One of the key elements to fighting bombers is knowing exactly where they have guns.  While it's always a bad idea to attack a bomber from its straight six, it's not always a bad idea to attack from below.  In particular, the B-26 and the Lanc have no ball turret gunners like in the B-17.  This makes them particularly susceptible to attacks from below, and I've had a great deal of success in blasting helpless 26s and Lancs out of the sky from this large gunner "blind spot."

-- Todd/DMF

[Fishu]

I like head on attacks.
Comes in certain angle from ahead and shoots in the cockpit with cannons and thats it.
Easy to shoot, just lays wall of fire and when begins to hit the nose, just adjusts sight so that it keeps hitting the nose.
Almost always its a blown up bomber after that.
When coming correctly from ahead, gunner might be having problem hitting you.

This attack is welcome for me specially in case when there isnt more than one cannon and couple of peashots.

Though, if gets too greed, you might collide.. that happend to me in one scenario after many succesful head on attacks, blew my wingtip in a collision when got too greed and pissed off since they didnt go down (little bit too much from the side and hit middle parts)

[Frosty1]

Depending on how good you are at shooting rockets this might be better:

Load up a D-Hog with rockets, locate your nearest buff, line up behind the buff about 500 ft above him, stay about 1.5-2K out, try aiming with one test rocket and then fire the rest.

I've gotten very good at killing buffs with just one rocket. Just practice a couple times and if you do a lot of attack missions it should be fairly easy to pull off. And besides, who expects a rocket to be fired at them from 2K out and since they don't expect it by the time they go to bank, it's too late.

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===>Frosty
====>Exposure2k.com
=====>Frosty@exposure2k.com

[This message has been edited by Frosty1 (edited 03-11-2001).]

[Jigster]

Actually I always attack from below... I get very fast and stay about 1.5k below them, staying directly under.

After pulling ahead enough, I simply pull straight up and go for the wings. Even the ball turrent on the B-17 has trouble hitting something coming straight up from underneath due to the way the tracers react to the level speed of the bomber.

It's easy to set up multiple passes this way, however, getting out after pulling up into the bomber can be tough if the gunner managed to track you the entire time. Generally though, by the time you pull away from the direction the bomber is going your already 1k and headed away.

- Bess

[gatt]

I fly the 205 90% of my AH time and I always go for the bomber in a group of enemies, even if closely escorted, since they are a big treath for our fields.

Well, if the buff pilot is waiting for you and is a good pilot/gunner, you have very little chance of surviving. HO attacks here are almost useless, since you meet with at least 4 brownings, lethal up to 1,200yds. Its like HOing a P38L with super-0.50s.

Very good are high-side attacks, but 90 degrees deflection shooting is difficult and one pass is often not enuff.

Net-lag and improved lethality make buff gunners *very* dangerous. The only good attack on a buff is the one when he is not waiting for you. Everything else is a nice bla-bla. Take a look at the Luftwaffe air-combat school tape, 45 minutes of attacks carried by 190A-7, Bf110 and Me109. 90% of the attacks are from co-alt and low six, without any treath for the attacker. Obviously, if we have the tape it means that the pilot survived and only God knows how many LW pilots died ...  

[mrfish]

that's pretty tacky using raubvogel as your example - very bad taste

- besides i am not swayed by a fighter being there - i will go biz as usual until my plane doesn't fly anymore and deliver my bombs,as that is the objective.

- additionally, sometimes a rear attack is the only one available if you are trying to keep your HQ up - at your expense if necessary

[Beurling]

Whats the way to kill a buff  all by yourself and live every time?

You simply fly 1.2 above and slightly ahead of the bomber. You then flip over and climb upside down.Watch the bomber closely. At any sign of movement attack.If its a lanc reverse and come up from below. Any other type set up a new attack 1.2 above and ahead of the buff. These passes should rake the upper part of the plane no ho's!. Try to hit a motor on your first pass to slow down the bomber. When you realy get good go for wings elevators and motors only.

Why does this work near 100% if you have the time to set it up? Its the way the top turret reverses back each time you switch positions. Its a game flaw. As soon as you see hes flying you have a free pass. He can't get his top gun around fast enough to track you.

EYE

[Hans]

 

that's pretty tacky using raubvogel as your example - very bad taste

Not after the insults he threw at me after he was shot down.  He practically acused me of cheating.

I apologised that I had done something to offend him in direct messages, but his response was that he was going to  post about how dweeby I am.

Which he did.

Hans.

[Laika]

 

Originally posted by Jigster:
Actually I always attack from below... I get very fast and stay about 1.5k below them, staying directly under.

After pulling ahead enough, I simply pull straight up and go for the wings. Even the ball turrent on the B-17 has trouble hitting something coming straight up from underneath due to the way the tracers react to the level speed of the bomber.

It's easy to set up multiple passes this way, however, getting out after pulling up into the bomber can be tough if the gunner managed to track you the entire time. Generally though, by the time you pull away from the direction the bomber is going your already 1k and headed away.

- Bess

This is how I attack buff's also, work great if you set it up right. I used it heaps in WB's flyin 109's (w/out wing packs) and again here in AH in the La5 (but at med-low alt).. Most buffs are a easy kill if you do your part. I always aim for the wing between the root and engine or if its a four engine buff between the two engines works well also.

Laika

[StSanta]

Well, belly attacks makes ya very vulrenable if the buff gunner knows what he is doing - a quick switch to top gunne as you pass anf he has a slow target to shoot at.

I climb a little above the buff, go to his 3 or 9, a little in front, turn into him and make a high speed pass slightly from above and to the side 8a little in front) opening up at d300.

Can take two or three passes, but is relatively safe.

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Baron Claus "StSanta" Von Ribbentroppen
9./JG 54 "Grünherz"


"Live to pull, pull to live"

[BigMax]

  Well fellas.. Historically speaking, the Axis trained their pilots to use surprise to maximum advantage..(Sun, clouds, terrain etc...). They also emphasized speed and multiple plane attacks focussing on a slightly high 12 H2H attacks trying to kill pilots & minimizing defensive fire time... Only weak spot on a B-17 is the nose - & rate of closure is doubled approx.

  I for one think that it's as the situation dictates... Have tried all the above mentioned tactics and have not had much success.... I like a High 4 to 8 & 400+IAS looping across behind & below (Making him switch gun positions) then also lining up a wingroot & letting her rip... Maybe an offensive Barrel roll if he is hot on ya with the guns...

I guess it really depends on what your style is...

BM <S> "Where'd who go!???"