Do you think Cornered Rat/WWII Online will cave in? Will anybody make another one?

[LtHans]

My brother is getting back into WWII Online now that it is starting to become what it was supposed to be last year.  He keeps bugging me and bugging me to restart my account so he can have a partner to run tanks and tow cannons around.

So far I've said no, but I'm planning to threaten his very life if he asks me one more time.

I wanted WWII Online to work.  I knew a game like it can work.  The problem was not the technical issues, as online multiplayer games are up and running (like AH here).  The problem was their design had some obvious gameplay flaws.  Too much land to cover by too few players, not to mention not giving the infantry their place to be useful.  They've already fired half their employees to keep above water, and their publisher went bankrupt.

I'm wondering if anybody will try again?  I think they will.  Ultima Online fell flat on it's face, but a few years latter EverQuest is wildly popular (in fact, I saw a BBC report that said it makes more money than Bulgaria does).

[Tac]

I tried it again this month. Lo and behold, my account was still active a good SIX MONTHS after I cancelled it (1 month after that virus went pay for play). I'm going to go check my bank statements to see if i've been billed or not, this thievery CRS is so well known for is extremely annoying.

Logged on... and its still the same POS. The only progress made that I can see is in the spawn limits of tanks and in new "castle" army bases.

The infantry is still nothing but a target for tanks. They even screwed it up even more by making the inf. models point that rifle foward all the time a-la DOOM 1 (and looks just as bad), they disabled the kneel/prone/stand toggle into a single "kneel" button (which you must keep pressed the whole time.. ouch!), rifle shots dont kill with 1 hit at point blank range (but 1 pistol shot or smg round will.. w00t), Visibility is still CRAP (and the 64 object limit STILL has you fighting enemies that phase in and out of existance.

Tanks are still Quake 'R Us.

Flight Model is a joke. Stuka's out-perform the H75 and Hurri1 and Spit 1 , 109E has a phenomenal roll rate and can turn inside a hurricane 1... the Blackout model is so incredibly moronic that you actually DIE from pulling a little bit too much, going from no blackout to instant blackout to death in a split second. Gunnery in Air to Air is also a joke. Reminds me of the old Atari 2600 games where you shot little lines at gonzo speed.

THE ONLY good things I see about that disaster of a game is the icon system (really excellent, I hope HTC copies it) and the little vapor trails the wings leave during a fight (sooo purty!).

[moose]

I'd like to try WWIIol just to see what it's like. i doubt i'd fall for it but well, gotta try everything once

too bad it wouldnt run on my PIII 800

[Reschke]

WW2OL:

Idea was great; Implementation leaves so much to be desired that it is not even funny.

[Fishu]

WWIIOL is still only of its kind and therefore good game.
It is kind of neat to get in a stuka and go bomb & strafe live targets or just duke it out with airplanes.
It isn't just quake on the wings like in AH.

They're getting it better and better, however, in some areas not.. like before mentioned inf model where they disabled kneeling and walking etc. changes. (it doesn't kneel anymore, just crouches a bit)
I don't know what they've been thinking when they did that to inf.

one thing is good to keep in mind; it can only get better.


Im sure there won't be another game of its kind for many years, it's simply too risky to do - as we've seen with WWIIOL.
Simply too big project, when you have easier ways of making money by cloning Quake (Thats what MOHAA basically is, with WWII looks) and other kind of simplier projects.

Aces High isn't any wonder game either, neither was Warbirds, neither was Air Warrior...
It's the kind of game which can almost surely get fair benefit.

[Animal]

Originally posted by Fishu
WWIIOL is still only of its kind and therefore good game.
It is kind of neat to get in a stuka and go bomb & strafe live targets or just duke it out with airplanes.
It isn't just quake on the wings like in AH.
 

Originally posted by Tac
Flight Model is a joke. Stuka's out-perform the H75 and Hurri1 and Spit 1 , 109E has a phenomenal roll rate and can turn inside a hurricane 1... the Blackout model is so incredibly moronic that you actually DIE from pulling a little bit too much, going from no blackout to instant blackout to death in a split second. Gunnery in Air to Air is also a joke. Reminds me of the old Atari 2600 games where you shot little lines at gonzo speed.

[Elfenwolf]

If you want to try it and you don't have the boxed game Staples had them on close-out for 9.99...

[LtHans]

One of the reasons I brought up this subject is Aces High and it's attempts to try to have a ground war.

I now really beleave that HiTech himself said it correctly.  People of different gameplay angles don't want to play against other types of warfare.  I.E.  Fighters vs tanks, or infantry vs warship.  The styles don't match.

However, we do want a God game that has everything.

If I were to redesign WWII Online I would split the army up from the navy/airforce.  The army would run their own game arenas using small, but detailed maps, while I think we could get away with combining the airwar and navy into a single arena that is very large, but basic terrain like AH is.  There would be some interoperability between the two games, and quite a bit when it comes to supply and strategic targets (factories and cargo ships).  Combat between them only comes in the form of army forward obsever players putting down targets on the map, which are duplicated in the air/sea arena.  If the air/sea guys hit it, it's evil twin in the army arena also blows up.

Add to that the infantry should be allowed to play as squads.  A single player, plus 8 AI idiots who only ape his movements and fire in the same direction as him.  No AI at all really.  Just extensions of the single player (like gunners on AH bombers).  He doesn't get sent back to the tower/user interface untill all nine men of the squad are dead.

HiTech talked about doing something like this for AH, to give the groundpounders enough to work with

[Flossy]

Originally posted by LtHans
However, we do want a God game that has everything.

Nah, I don't want a "God" game, thanks all the same!  

I do play WWIIOL though, and certainly enjoy it - I just wish I had more time to play it as well as Aces High, but often go for long periods between sessions.  

I love the tanks in WWIIOL, but unfortunately they recently severely limited them from each base, and its no fun watching three of my squaddies roll out in S35s, leaving me to either take a far inferior R35 or go out as an SMG and catch a ride on one - I nearly always end up dieing quickly that way at the end of an otherwise uneventful ride.  

For this reason, I have not played at all much recently, and unless they change their policy sometime soon I may end up dropping it.  I don't want to, it is a great game otherwise, especially if we can all work together - and the scenery is fantastic!  I don't fly in WWIIOL, as my main interest there is the ground war, and I do all my flying here.  

[Dowding]

Well, I reactivated my account last week to check it out and was disappointed with the progress since when I last played (back before pay to play).

The air war is still very poor - I can't see any discernible differences, and the whole thing still chugs when you actually get near any combat. The black-out system defies belief, and the key mapper is particularly poor.

The tanks side of things is really well done. But it was before, so hardly a relevation.

Infantry is the most frustrating part of it. The controls are just soooooo cumbersome and survivability is ridiculously low. I really do think this side of things would have been better if they had made things a little more like existing FPS games. Day of defeat springs to mind (v2.0 models stamina etc, and at least the lethality of the rifles are something like what they ought to be).

Ambient sounds still seem buggy. A tank can be on the other side of a valley and sound like it's parked on your head.

The division of the game into two separate launch pages is a nice improvement.

I hope it survives, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Mighty1]

Fishu wrote:

WWIIOL is still only of its kind and therefore good game.

Uh right! It doesn't matter if it IS the only game like it it still blows.

I tried to play it again after their big patch...still sucked.

 I was lied to so many times there is no way in hell I would ever trust those rat bastards again nor will I ever try a game of theirs.

I think this was the only time I really wished a company would go under.

[LtHans]

Personally I think they tried to hard.  They really didn't need to go full bore with the ultra realism in the physics, particularily on the ground.

Ballistics, yes, but not with the vehicle suspension and inertia.  A simple system would work just as well.

And their plan for spawning infantry and needing to truck them to the fight is not too bright.  Infantry need to be near the fight from the get go.  What is needed is a fight with both sides spawing infantry near the fight, and fighting vehicles further back.

I just shake my head at obvious.....obvious....proble ms like that.  I didn't even need to play the game to know it wouldn't work well at all.

[Fishu]

Mighty,

I'll rather play WWIIOL than Aces High
Aces High is a simple quake on the wings and thats it.. just doesn't get me interested anymore.
Has bug and has issues, but it's still better than air quake.

Oh.. by the way, it got 88 points in 2-page review on finnish gaming magazine plus 3 pages dedicated for rookies (total of 5 pages in one magazine)

It's all about that what people wants.. I want something more than quake on the wings.


Tac & Animal,

Stuka comment? anyone who knows how to fly, can win stuka hands down.

[Tac]

yes fishu, and im sure the hurricane 1 went to 580 mph in 5 seconds of dive and still retained manouverability. Or better yet, the im sure their gunnery modelling is Ssssooo correctly modelled it doesnt even resemble gun camera footage in ANY WAY at all.

WW2OL will go under in a year or so when other companies finish their own MMPOG WW2 games. Heck, if 3000AD adapts their BCM:XP2 game to use WW2 units, itd be a thousand times better looking and better modelled than WW2OL will ever be.. right from the very start.

[Animal]

It sure did get hammered in our reviews, the hardcore sim gamers (as in, us, the customers, not some magazine that charges for positive feedback)
It IS a very good idea for a sim, it had potential. But the execution was poor. We know you have personal grudges with Aces High, but please keep a scientific mind, be objective, or you will come as a fool.
Generally we praise what is good (IL-2, Falcon 4, Comanche Hokum) but dont fool yourself by standing by, a product that was poorly made, and coming here to tell us that what we enjoy and admire is pure crap.
Vent your insecurities elsewere Fishu, go work on those nice mods you make for Rainbow Six, you excell at that, not at trying to prove your whiney opinions.