Author Topic: Hanoi Jane  (Read 549 times)

Offline ZXMAW

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Hanoi Jane
« on: April 29, 2002, 09:24:57 PM »
Tressa Koehrer, Field Representative
Assemblyman Tony Strickland, 37th AD
221 East Daily Drive, Suite 7
Camarillo, CA  93010
805-987-5195 Office
805-484-0853 Fax
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael A. Plisky [mailto:mplisky@vcmail.net]
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 8:44 AM
To: Andy Stay
Subject: Hanoi Jane


Subject: FW: Hanoi Jane

Keep this moving!





Subj: KEEP THIS MOVING; ACROSS AMERICA HONORING A TRAITOR This is for all
the kids born in the 70's that do not remember this, and didn't have to bear
the burden, that our fathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to
bear. Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century."
Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still countless others have never
known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country but specific
men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam.

The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot.  The pilot's name is Jerry
Driscoll, a River Rat.  In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival
School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from a stinking
cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was ordered
to describe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane
treatment" he'd received.  He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged
away.

During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's
feet, which sent that officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered
from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the
Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton. From 1963-65, Col.
Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4E's).  He spent 6 years in the
"Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action".  His wife
lived on faith that he was still alive.  His group, too, got the cleaned,
fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit.

They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that
they still survived.  Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSN
on it, in the palm of his hand.  When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a
cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little
encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are
you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?"
Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper.


She took them all without missing a beat.  At the end of the line and once
the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turned
to the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers. Three men
died from the subsequent beatings.  Col. Carrigan was almost number four but
he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions that day.

I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured
by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in 1968, and held for
over 5 years.  I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage
in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi.  My North Vietnamese
captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a
leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near
the Cambodian border.

At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs.  (My normal weight is 170
lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."

When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political
officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda.  I said yes, for I
would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different
from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane
Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a
rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel
placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped.

I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I
was released.  I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She
did not answer me.

This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Years
of Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" should never
include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots
There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's
participation in blatant treason, is one of them.

Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It
will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will
never forget.

Offline Tac

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Hanoi Jane
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2002, 09:45:52 PM »
seen this 8 times in the O-club before. Urban Legend. Fonda was an ugly beach anyway. =P

Offline midnight Target

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Hanoi Jane
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2002, 10:08:05 AM »
Quote
The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above -- that Fonda turned over slips of paper furtively given her by American POWS to the North Vietnamese and that several POWs were beaten to death as a result -- are proveably untrue. Those named in the inflammatory e-mail categorically deny the events they supposedly were part of.

"It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret. Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentioned in the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shot down over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time in a POW camp. He has no idea why the story was attributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda."

Offline AKIron

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Hanoi Jane
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2002, 11:04:14 AM »
I believe she did say this however:

When American POWs finally began to return home (some of them having been held captive for up to nine years) and describe the tortures they had endured at the hands of the North Vietnamese, Jane Fonda quickly told the country that they should "not hail the POWs as heroes, because they are hypocrites and liars." Fonda said the idea that the POWs she had met in Vietnam had been tortured was "laughable," claiming: "These were not men who had been tortured. These were not men who had been starved. These were not men who had been brainwashed." The POWs who said they had been tortured were "exaggerating, probably for their own self-interest," she asserted. She told audiences that "Never in the history of the United States have POWs come home looking like football players. These football players are no more heroes than Custer was. They're military careerist and professional killers" who are "trying to make themselves look self-righteous, but they are war criminals according to law."
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline midnight Target

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Hanoi Jane
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2002, 12:04:42 PM »
No question she said and did some idiotic things. Lets just make sure we accuse her of the correct idiotic things. :)

Freedom of speech can be a real biatch to support sometimes. Glad we have people like the ACLU around to assist us with the tough nuts that still need defending.

Offline LePaul

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Hanoi Jane
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2002, 12:15:45 PM »
Seen this all before.

Do you really think the Hollywood people, who are in love with themselves first, then each other, will beleive it?  Of course not.  Be damned the facts, gents.  Its Hollywood and her cronies.

Nah, the only hope we have is when she attempts to break into heaven, God unravels his massive scrolls, reads her deeds, and yanks the trap door to hell....

Offline Preon1

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Hanoi Jane
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2002, 12:24:52 PM »
Well said LePaul

It's no secret what Hanoi Jane did during Vietnam, but it's something that Hollywood's conveniently forgot.

Lets just hope something like this never happens again.

Offline Elfenwolf

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Hanoi Jane
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2002, 12:26:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Preon1
Well said LePaul

It's no secret what Hanoi Jane did during Vietnam, but it's something that Hollywood's conveniently forgot.

Lets just hope something like this never happens again.


Something like what, that Jane Fonda exercised her right to free speech?

Offline AKIron

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Hanoi Jane
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2002, 12:37:35 PM »
That Jane Fonda could so inflammatorily denounce our military; our mothers, fathers, daughters and sons and still make hit movies and popular exercise videos makes me ill.

Sure there’s free speech in the U.S.. Many of the one’s she so loudly slandered gave their lives to ensure it.

Where’s justice?
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline midnight Target

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Hanoi Jane
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2002, 12:47:27 PM »
Justice is found in Jane's ability to say what she said. Sure it's difficult to hear and most will disagree with her, but just what do you think freedom of speech means? Freedom to say only the things that we agree with?
Freedom is freedom, and aren't we glad we have it today?

Offline AKIron

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Hanoi Jane
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2002, 12:54:04 PM »
I'm certainly glad for my freedoms. Just afraid our country won't enjoy them much longer. Not when we are so apathetic regarding what's right and wrong.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Toad

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Free Speech? Or Aid and Comfort?
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2002, 10:21:18 PM »
She can say what she wants to say; no problem with that.

But I personally think the trip to Hanoi went a little beyond free speech.

While the incident at the start of this thread has pretty well been universally debunked by POWs themselves as "urban legend", I can say this:

I went to UPT with one of the longest held POWs in the Hilton. He told his classmates that the most severe beatings he ever received were when Jane was in town.

Make of that what you will. I'll never like her and if I live long enough I plan a special trip to p*ss on her grave before I move on myself.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Preon1

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Hanoi Jane
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2002, 10:28:12 PM »
Free speech isn't what I'm trying to get at.  It's human decency.  Denouncing our nation's military is her right, but it doesn't mean that I have to approve of her actions.

"It is the Soldier, not the poet, who gives us the freedom of speech.
It is the Soldier, not the reporter, who gives us the freedom of the press.
It is the Soldier, not the campus organizer, who gives us the freedom to demonstrate.
It is the Soldier who salutes the Flag, who serves beneath the Flag, whose coffin is draped by the Flag, who allows the protestor to burn the Flag."
-Father Dennis Edward O'Brien (USMC)

In 27 days, I will earn a commission as an officer in the US Air Force.  I will take an oath to defend the ideals of this nation.  I don't criticize Jane Fonda for her use of freedom of speech.  I criticize her because I don't believe that she's a person of decent moral grounding.

Offline Bonden

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Hanoi Jane
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2002, 10:30:35 PM »
Lemme know when your leavin Toad,  Ill drive and buy dinner after:mad:

Offline Toad

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Hanoi Jane
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2002, 10:32:21 PM »
Good luck, Preon1. Have a great time, however long you stay in. Did my hitch years and years ago but I still remember it as a great experience. You get out of the AF what you put into it. Enjoy!

"To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high."

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!