Author Topic: U.S. vs Iraq  (Read 1352 times)

Offline fdiron

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U.S. vs Iraq
« on: May 05, 2002, 10:12:19 PM »
What would Iraq need to do in order to withstand another conventional war against the U.S.?  Heres how I rate Iraqs needs:

(1)  A sucessful anti-aircraft system.  Advanced Surface-to-Air missles would be a top priority.

(2)  An anti-tank platform capable of destroying an M1A1 or equivalent (Leopard II, etc).

(3) Dispersed military headquarters and mobile command quarters.

Offline Russian

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U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2002, 10:21:51 PM »
Miracle ?

Offline Sandman

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U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2002, 10:27:31 PM »
They don't stand an ice cube's chance in hell.
sand

Offline majic

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U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2002, 10:49:05 PM »
If they try a stand up fight like last time they don't have a prayer.  Not sure what other types of tactics would work in that terrain...

Offline Animal

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U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2002, 10:57:16 PM »
Tactical nukes? Biological warfare?
Terrorist attacks on the US mainland so the people lose their will to fight?

Offline LtHans

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U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2002, 10:57:32 PM »
We won't be able to attack Iraq because nobody will let us use their land to do it from.

I think this whole idea of the USA preparing to wage war on Iraq is stupid myself.  I don't even know if we Americans are willing to do it.

I would prefer to make an ulimatium to the other Arab neihbors of Iraq.  Either get in with us, or we're leaving.

Hans.

Offline streakeagle

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Re: U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2002, 11:12:18 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by fdiron
What would Iraq need to do in order to withstand another conventional war against the U.S.?  Heres how I rate Iraqs needs:

(1)  A sucessful anti-aircraft system.  Advanced Surface-to-Air missles would be a top priority.

(2)  An anti-tank platform capable of destroying an M1A1 or equivalent (Leopard II, etc).

(3) Dispersed military headquarters and mobile command quarters.


You missed one:

(4) A credible nuclear deterrent. Seems pretty effective at keeping countries from violating our borders, could do the same for Iraq.

Isn't it ironic how United States maintains that it is a crime for Iraq to seek nuclear weapons as a means to impose its will on the world?

Iraq has proven to be our enemy and as such it is in our interest to ensure that it does not ever have enough power to hurt us or more importantly the precious oil in that area. But I will never accept claims that it is a crime for another country to seek the same power and prestige nuclear weapons have brought to this country. It is arrogant for us to think that only our country and those we approve of are entitled to the blanket of security provided by a nuclear arsenal.

Would Sadam Hussein use nuclear weapons or at least use them as bargaining chips? Possibly, but the record to date shows that of all the countries that have operational nuclear weapons, only one had ever used them on populated areas.

Pakistan has been about as friendly to us as Iraq. In fact, Pakistan openly backed the Taliban and may still be helping them behind our back. Why didn't we take actions to prevent Pakistan from developing a nuclear arsenal? Not one strike on possible weapons plants.  Not one UN inspection team.

Why the inconsistency? O I L and M O N E Y
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Offline Toad

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U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2002, 11:30:28 PM »
GM Autonomy

"The engineers and designers responsible for the Autonomy concept believe mass production of the vehicle or one like it is possible within 10 years."

Chrysler unveils fuel-cell minivan

"The Natrium goes 300 miles on a 54-gallon tank of water and sodium borate, reaches 60 mph in about 16 seconds and gets the equivalent of 30 mpg of gasoline, said Thomas Moore, vice president of DaimlerChrysler's technical affairs and engineering technologies."

Saddam, "Do Not Ask For Whom the Bell Tolls, It Tolls For Thee."

:D

It will take a while.. but it will come. And when it does they can go back to eating sand. :)
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline john9001

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U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2002, 12:07:28 AM »
streakeagle wants to fight a "fair" war ...........do we have "timeouts" and "offsides" also??...........yeah , whatever

Offline Tac

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U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2002, 12:32:17 AM »
The US wont "invade" Iraq, it will just beat the toejam out of it, install a new government of their liking and leave... making a tidy profit of reduced oil prices and reconstruction contracts.

Arab neighbors not allowing it? Last time I checked the US was the main buyer of their oil. Sure, they can "embargo" against the US.. but theyd lose so much money in the end it'd hurt them a lot more. Plus theres always other sources of oil from ALLIED nations.. like south american and russian oil fields that are blooming all the sudden.

What Iraq can do to withstand conventional war vs US?

Nothing. They only thing that might help them is to set those oil fields ablaze again, to deny use of tech gadgets by the US (IR vision, navigation, etc). But that wont help them for more than a day. And it wont be conventional war either. Saddamn knows he's gonna lose and he'll either RUN and seek asylum somewhere or he'll order use of chemical weapons against Israel with his scuds and then against US forces. Which will of course result in his bellybutton getting nuked to hell. But face it, he's a nutcase, he dont have nothing to lose, he'll do it. Heck he may even believe that his arab neighbors and the international community will prevent him from getting nuked.. you know, UN/US forces being the good guys plus needing to keep good relations with arabs in the future and such.

Methinks the crapola will end up irradiated. Taco Bell will finally sell the "Hussein Burrito" .. microwavable in 5 minutes!

Offline weazel

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Whats the build up in Kuwait for then?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Daily Telegraph
December 20, 2001
US build-up in the Middle East
By Peter Green in Prague and Michael Smith

MORE than 20,000 American troops have been moved into Qatar and Kuwait
amid repeated suggestions that Washington is preparing to move the war
on terrorism into Iraq, defence sources said yesterday.

The United States moved the headquarters of its 3rd Army to Qatar two
weeks ago and defence analysts have reported large numbers of troops
being moved into the region since.

The 3rd Army is the ground component of the US Central Command, which
oversees America's military operations in the Middle East and
Afghanistan and was in charge of coalition forces during the Gulf war.

The Pentagon has insisted that it is merely rotating troops but defence
analysts say that about 24,000 troops have been moved in with barely a
brigade, around 4,000, moving out.

The Czech Republic inadvertently confirmed yesterday the military
build-up in the region by suggesting that up to 400 troops it has
committed to the US-led war on terrorism might be sent to Kuwait.

Miroslav Titz, the deputy chairman of the Czech parliament's defence and
security committee, said an anti-chemical warfare unit and a field
hospital could be deployed at an American military base in the Gulf
state.

"A joint contingent is being considered," he said. "It might be deployed
at a US base in Kuwait where it would have logistics support." Czech
chemical defence units and a field hospital were based in Kuwait during
the Gulf war.

The deployment of so many troops may be designed to intimidate Saddam
Hussein. American officials admitted that a State Department team, led
by Ryan Crocker, the deputy assistant secretary of state for Near
Eastern Affairs, was surreptitiously sent into northern Iraq recently to
meet Kurdish leaders.

The visit was intended to make Baghdad jittery and to encourage the
Kurdish leaders to unite to provide opposition to Saddam. President Bush
and his top advisers are said to have decided against launching an
attack on Iraq and favour encouraging opposition forces to overthrow
Saddam from within.

Colin Powell, the US secretary of state, is devising a long-term plan
aimed at forcing Iraq to readmit United Nations weapons inspectors and
co-operate with a set of economic sanctions. Officials say if the Iraqi
leader refuses they do not rule out using military force.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

Offline Karnak

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U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2002, 12:50:25 AM »
Sandman,

An icecube's chance in hell?

Surely you jest.

You're being much too generous.

I'd say that Iraq has less than a snowflake's chance in hell of standing against the USA.:p
Petals floating by,
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Offline weazel

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Chimpys plans for world domination.
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2002, 12:55:45 AM »
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'A right-wing cabal is pulling America to war'
 
By Conn Hallinan

Sometime this fall, probably before the mid-term elections, the U.S. will probably be at war with Iraq.But why are we headed to war in the Mideast? Not because Iraq is engaged in terrorism. According to the CIA, it isn't. Not because Iraqi arms threaten our security. According to most arms inspectors, Iraq is essentially disarmed.

No, it will happen because more than a decade ago a small cabal of political heavyweights in the administration of George Bush the First, who now also run the foreign and defense policy of George Bush II, sat down and drew up a blueprint to rule the world. X-Files fantasies?

Their names should be familiar: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, Secretary of State Colin Powell, and Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney's chief of staff. Their goal is to "shape" the world to "preclude the rise of another global rival for the indefinite future," in the words of one of the group's leading thinkers, Zalmay Khalizad (now special envoy to Afghanistan).



The tone of these people is chilling. Our allies are cast as a bunch of spineless whiners, international agreements are dismissed as straitjackets, and the "enemy" portrayed as a mob of wogs, easily scattered by a show of cold steel. In his briefing of senior White House staff on the Mideast, Bernard Lewis of Princeton (another "team" member) argued that "in that part of the world, nothing matters more than resolute force and will."

Homework was undoubtedly the collected works of Cecil Rhodes and Rudyard Kipling.

When Bush addressed the nation Sept. 20, he called on the American people and our allies to join a "war on terrorism." But in the intervening six months, the goals of that war have changed drastically. National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice told Lemann that the policy was not just to go after terrorists, but to prevent the accumulation of weapons of mass destruction in "the hands of irresponsible states."

This is a handy little distinction, because on Feb. 5 the CIA said there was no evidence that Iraq has engaged in any terrorism directed at the United States or its allies. And while the administration has trumpeted that Iraq blocked all arms inspections three years ago, few people outside of Washington (except British Prime Minister Tony Blair) actually think that Iraq has such weapons.

As Scott Ritter, former head of the UN Special Commission on Concealment says, "It was possible as early as 1997 to determine that, strictly from a qualitative standpoint, Iraq had been disarmed."

Would it make a difference if Iraq agreed to inspections? Nope. When asked that question by CNN, Powell replied that "even then the United States believes the Iraqi people would be better served with a new kind of leadership."

The latest rationale for invasion is that Iraq has ties with al Qaeda, a charge based more on tortured logic than intelligence. CIA Director George Tenet recently told Congress that, while there was no evidence that such ties exist, the "mutual antipathy" that the two had for the United States "suggests that tactical cooperation between the two is possible." If one can find two flimsier words than "suggests" and "possible" to launch a war, it would be great to hear them.

The lack of evidence linking Iraq to terrorism is deeply disturbing to our allies. Even America's strongest ally, Britain, is split on an invasion. More than 122 Labor members of Parliament have signed a petition opposing any attack. By shifting the target from terrorism to weapons that might fall into the hands of terrorists, virtually any country becomes a target. The administration has already lined up Syria, Iran, Somalia, and Sudan once Iraq is toppled. That invading any of these countries would violate international law and the UN charter doesn't faze these people.

U.S. foreign policy has been hijacked by a group of unelected unilateralists who seem determined to drag America into an endless morass of brushfire wars to achieve the goal of unrestrained power. They are doing this without consulting with Congress or the American people, and unless citizens act now to hold them accountable, our world is going to get a lot more dangerous than it already is.

Conn Hallinan writes for Foreign Policy In Focus http://www.fpif.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chimpy already "hit the trifecta", I guess he doesn't feel his chances of re-election are good enough without commiting troops to take down saddam, or is it "short man complex" ruling his thought process?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2002, 01:29:09 AM by weazel »

Offline weazel

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It's a good thing the auto makers have some vision....
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2002, 01:01:16 AM »
Originally posted by Toad
GM Autonomy

"The engineers and designers responsible for the Autonomy concept believe mass production of the vehicle or one like it is possible within 10 years."

Chrysler unveils fuel-cell minivan

"The Natrium goes 300 miles on a 54-gallon tank of water and sodium borate, reaches 60 mph in about 16 seconds and gets the equivalent of 30 mpg of gasoline, said Thomas Moore, vice president of DaimlerChrysler's technical affairs and engineering technologies."

Saddam, "Do Not Ask For Whom the Bell Tolls, It Tolls For Thee."

:D
It will take a while.. but it will come. And when it does they can go back to eating sand. :)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chimpys energy/environment policy to date:

* Cut the Environmental Protection Agency budget by $500 million.

* Taken corporate polluters off the hook for cleaning up the toxic messes they leave behind, making John Q. Taxpayer foot the bill.

* Suspended rules denying government contracts to companies that violate government regulations, including environmental and workplace safety rules.

* Suspended rules that require hard-rock mines to clean up their pollution on public lands.

* Rescinded a proposal to give the public information about public health and safety consequences of chemical plant accidents.

Specifically for his oil/gas industry and buddies, Bush has:

* Cut funding for research into cleaner, more efficient cars and trucks by 28 percent.

* Canceled the 2004 deadline for automakers to develop high-mileage prototypes.

* Abandoned his campaign promise to regulate carbon dioxide levels.

* Rescinded rules mandating energy efficiency regulations for air conditioners and heat pumps.

* Cut funding of renewable energy source research by 50 percent.

The Bush administrations move to cut by 50% funding for research into renewable energy sources is more than just a gift to the oil refining industry for big campaign finance checks. The above fact coupled with the American Petroleum Institutes own reports in and of themselves virtually proves that the Bush administration is making policy decisions with serious long term ramifications solely at the request of the petroleum industry without any consideration for the long term effects of these decisions.

The American Petroleum Institute's own documents state that "proved" US oil reserves would last only ten years at current production levels. In fact recent estimates state that with known reserves coupled with accelerated efforts to locate oil fields not yet discovered would last 40 to 80 years at current production levels.

Chimpy has his head up his ass, and his hands in the oil/gas industries pockets. :mad:
« Last Edit: May 06, 2002, 02:05:30 AM by weazel »

Offline 8ball

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Re: U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2002, 02:32:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by fdiron
What would Iraq need to do in order to withstand another conventional war against the U.S.?  Heres how I rate Iraqs needs:

(1)  A sucessful anti-aircraft system.  Advanced Surface-to-Air missles would be a top priority.

(2)  An anti-tank platform capable of destroying an M1A1 or equivalent (Leopard II, etc).

(3) Dispersed military headquarters and mobile command quarters.


1) There is no SAM that can defeat stealth technology, and the B-2 or F-117 would be the first planes to strike Iraqi air-defense installations, just like our prior war with them.  Yugoslavia had the most advanced air-defense network in the world until we started bombing them.  Hundreds of days of bombing and we lost one plane.

2) Iraq has no access to an anti-tank platform that could destroy an M1A1.  Even if they did, it wouldn't matter.  Our Air Force would destroy that Division on the first day of the air war.  Can anyone say JSOW?

3) They already use that.  They used it in the first war we had with them.  We defeated it then and we can defeat it now.

Iraq stands no chance at all against an attack by the US.  In fact, no country in the world could stop a direct attack from the US.