Author Topic: U.S. vs Iraq  (Read 1385 times)

Offline funkedup

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9466
      • http://www.raf303.org/
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2002, 03:03:22 AM »
Only way to beat the US is to get air superiority.  That means fighters.

Offline fdiron

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 697
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2002, 05:20:24 AM »
B2s and F117s can be detected by radar.  Its only at mid to long ranges that they appear 'invisible'.  But speaking of fighters...what if Saddam focused on a strong airforce?  Perhaps 100 Mig-29s and highly trained pilots.  In modern war, air superiority is everything.  Most analyst agree that the Mig29 is a better plane than the F16, perhaps even better than the aging F15 also.  

What would it take for the U.S. to be too demoralized to fight Iraq?  Maybe a few transport planes full of soldiers shot down?  I'm sure that a flight of Mig29s could carry enough ordinance to destroy a cargo ship or two.

That brings up the question of the airfield facilities these Migs would be using.  Perhaps underground bunkers near major highways would prove to be best.  The Mig29 is designed to take-off from rough runways and such, so that would be no problem for it.

Offline Hortlund

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4690
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2002, 05:56:26 AM »
Perhaps the Mig-29 is a better fighter on paper. It doesnt matter one bit though. The US has missiles that will take down those Mig-29s three times the distance of the Mig-29s can even hope to fire any of their own missiles.

And pilot quality? Forgetaboutit.

Offline Eaglecz

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 753
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2002, 05:57:49 AM »
What is Iraq ?

Offline Hortlund

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4690
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2002, 06:06:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by funkedup
Only way to beat the US is to get air superiority.  That means fighters.

I disagree.

The only way to beat the US is to win the PR war. Somalia is a good example of this.

The US has the best military in the world, but she is incredibly weak when it comes to public opinion. For some reason, it would seem that the US public doesnt have the stomache for war.

Offline Eaglecz

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 753
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2002, 06:08:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by fdiron
B2s and F117s can be detected by radar.  Its only at mid to long ranges that they appear 'invisible'.  


ha ha ha

your stealths arent invisible since 1995 i think ... so keep fairy tales for someone else :D

http://www.aeronautics.ru/tamara02.htm

this is old version new version is called Vera and its produced by private company in Czech
« Last Edit: May 06, 2002, 06:23:08 AM by Eaglecz »

Offline Dowding

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6867
      • http://www.psys07629.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/272/index.html
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2002, 06:10:48 AM »
Quote
For some reason, it would seem that the US public doesnt have the stomache for war.


I doubt most Western democracies have the stomach for war. In fact, Western Europe has never had this attribute - it's just that some countries didn't have much sand to bury their respective heads in and had to knuckle down.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Eaglecz

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 753
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2002, 06:12:52 AM »
1 more http://216.26.163.62/2002/me_iraq_1_14.html

you still reading only about older version developed by army

dont forget that there exist new version produced by private company

Ahhhh finaly here is developer :)
http://www.era.cz
« Last Edit: May 06, 2002, 06:15:19 AM by Eaglecz »

Offline fdiron

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 697
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2002, 06:33:02 AM »
Quote
1) There is no SAM that can defeat stealth technology, and the B-2 or F-117 would be the first planes to strike Iraqi air-defense installations, just like our prior war with them. Yugoslavia had the most advanced air-defense network in the world until we started bombing them. Hundreds of days of bombing and we lost one plane.

2) Iraq has no access to an anti-tank platform that could destroy an M1A1. Even if they did, it wouldn't matter. Our Air Force would destroy that Division on the first day of the air war. Can anyone say JSOW?

3) They already use that. They used it in the first war we had with them. We defeated it then and we can defeat it now.


8Ball, please quit making stuff up.  I know for a fact that the Russians possess a shoulder fired anti-tank missle which is capable of burning through 750mm of steel.  This ought to be more than enough to kill an M1A1.  And yes, I know the M1 has composite armor and reactive armor.  However, armor almost always lags behind weapondry.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2002, 06:50:53 AM by fdiron »

Offline Eaglecz

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 753
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2002, 06:45:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hortlund
Perhaps the Mig-29 is a better fighter on paper. It doesnt matter one bit though. The US has missiles that will take down those Mig-29s three times the distance of the Mig-29s can even hope to fire any of their own missiles.

And pilot quality? Forgetaboutit.


hehe i guess that with point of view like that you were realy
shock by 11 sep



http://www.military.cz/russia/air/suchoj/Su_37/su37.mpeg
« Last Edit: May 06, 2002, 06:49:17 AM by Eaglecz »

Offline fdiron

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 697
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2002, 06:56:34 AM »
Now I could be wrong on this, but I think the last BVR (beyond visual range) missle kill by a U.S. fighter was by an F4 Phantom which shot down 2 F105 Thunderchiefs during the Vietnam war.  Since then, there have been serious restrictions on BVR missle launches during combat (if any at all).

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18837
A bunch of liberals protesting the war at home, turning America onto itself ...

That is the only way we can lose - by beating ourselves...
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | 16GB GIGABYTE RTX 4070 Ti Super | 850 watt ps | pimax Crystal Light | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder

Offline fdiron

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 697
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2002, 07:13:28 AM »
I've seen alot of replies that say that protesters would cause America to pull out of the war.  To me, protesters are not the cause of losing a war, they are a symptom.  Vietnam for example- That was a very mismanaged war.  As a result, U.S. soldiers started comming home in body bags.  People didnt like this.  If the war had been managed right, there would have been far fewer casualties.  That is why there were protesters.

Offline Hortlund

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4690
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2002, 07:24:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by fdiron


8Ball, please quit making stuff up.  I know for a fact that the Russians possess a shoulder fired anti-tank missle which is capable of burning through 750mm of steel.  This ought to be more than enough to kill an M1A1.  And yes, I know the M1 has composite armor and reactive armor.  However, armor almost always lags behind weapondry.


Uh..?

Are you sure about the M1A1s having reactive armor? I thought they didnt. In fact, I thought that neither the LeoII, Challenger or M1A1-2 had reactive armor. That there was no need for reactive armor because of the composite armor those tanks have are just as effective (or even more effective) against HEAT projectiles.

Basically, reactive armor is nothing but a bunch of explosives on the outside of the tank's armor. Designed to disrupt or divert the explosive force from a shape-charged detonation (please excuse any mistakes due to my crappy english here). Most modern AT missiles have ways to defeat reactive armor though. Most of these missiles use a combination of overhead attack and double-punch.

Basically the AT missile is set to fly approx 1 meter above the target and detonate when it is directly above it. (Overhead attack). The missile then has two shape-charged warheads. One in the front of the missile and one in the rear. These are timed so that the front warhead detonates a millisecond (or something like that) before the aft warhead. Both are angled so that they will hit the same area. What happens is that the reactive armor "reacts" to the first detonation, and neutralize that warhead. But the second warhead then arrives at the now-empty patch of armor, and only has to defeat the top armor of the tank.

The composite armor of the modern western tanks use armor with several layers of different material. Some of these layers are excellent heat absorbers, others are hardened steel, etc etc. With that kind of armor, there is no need for reactive armor, since the missile detonation will be absorbed by some of the layers (ceramics, amongst others).

Offline fdiron

  • Parolee
  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 697
U.S. vs Iraq
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2002, 07:40:27 AM »
That illustrates my point of armor lagging behind weapondry.  Reactive armor is not a permanent thing.  It can be added or removed.  I have also heard that it damages the sighting system on the M1 if applied to the turret.  I have seen video footage of reactive armor on M1s on the history channel.  These M1s were painted in euro-green, so they probably pre-dated the Gulf War.