Crash course on Loose Duce Matches

[TracerX]

Well, I am new to this, and was hoping to get some good experience in my first crack at the Loose Duce Tournament.  I guess my wish will come true since I will be facing two of the best, AKCurley and AKNimitz in the first round!  If anyone can give me some advice on tactics and what it takes to be successful I would appreciate it.  I assume that gaining as much alt as possible is important.   Is there some strategy when choosing fuel and ammo load outs?  I am looking for advice on some of the little things since I do not have experience on how these things play out.  I would not ask for tips on how my opponents fly, or tips on how to defeat them specifically.  I will adhere to some form of chivalry and leave that for us to find out.  Thanks for your comments.

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by tracerx
If anyone can give me some advice on tactics and what it takes to be successful I would appreciate it.  I assume that gaining as much alt as possible is important.   Is there some strategy when choosing fuel and ammo load outs?

[/B]

Ammo and fuel loadout are not factors because both teams must use the exact same configuration.  Gaining alt is also not really a factor, at least early on, because both sides agree to an altitude ceiling on the merge.  Going above this to gain an advantage is both unsportsmanlike and probably grounds for disqualification.  Naturally, after the merge, you can do whatever you want... grab as much alt as you feel you need, though in my experience you won't really have much time for grabbing alt unless you enjoy watching your wingman die.

I am looking for advice on some of the little things since I do not have experience on how these things play out.  I would not ask for tips on how my opponents fly, or tips on how to defeat them specifically.  I will adhere to some form of chivalry and leave that for us to find out.  Thanks for your comments.

The best recommendation I can give is to remember that this is a Loose Deuce competition.  The last tournament, Nath and I faced a couple of teams who thought it was about Blue Angels-style formation flying and who consequently merged with wingmen no more than 300 yards apart.  This is a recipe for disaster... try keeping your formation loose, a reasonable distance apart, and be innovative.  Most of all, have fun.  

-- Todd/Leviathn

[TracerX]

Thanks Leviathn,  your right about having fun, that is the most important thing, and part of my fun is learning to be a better pilot.  Thanks for the warning on merge rules.  In the area of weapon and fuel loadout, have you ever employed a strategy to conserve fuel and make the other guy run out of fuel before you? or make him burn his ammo?  I imagine that those are risky strategies and should not be employed as a first line but rather could be employed based on how the engagement goes.  My biggest fear is that I would go into an engagement and find out that these are viable defenses, and find myself at a severe disadvantage.  I assume that most matches are decided by good tactics, pilot skill and gunnery.  Is that so?

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by tracerx
Thanks Leviathn,  your right about having fun, that is the most important thing, and part of my fun is learning to be a better pilot.  Thanks for the warning on merge rules.  In the area of weapon and fuel loadout, have you ever employed a strategy to conserve fuel and make the other guy run out of fuel before you? or make him burn his ammo?

[/B]

In my experience, loose deuce matches go very fast once the teams merge... no more than two to five minutes.  A strategy based on running the other guy out of gas won't work, and I don't recommend it.  Running the other guy out of ammo probably depends on the plane choice.  I can see it happening in something like the Hurricane IID if you choose that, but running the other guy out of ammo doesn't prevent him from forcing you to auger or collide.  Anything's fair game.  

I imagine that those are risky strategies and should not be employed as a first line but rather could be employed based on how the engagement goes.  My biggest fear is that I would go into an engagement and find out that these are viable defenses, and find myself at a severe disadvantage.  I assume that most matches are decided by good tactics, pilot skill and gunnery.  Is that so?

I think that's a fair assessment.  Base your tactics around what you and your partner do best.  Nath and I knew that our strengths were going 1v1 with the enemy, so we followed a strategy of separation and isolation.  The idea was to force the 2v2 into two different 1v1s, where we felt we excelled.  If you don't feel as comfortable pursuing this strategy and the tactics necessary to carry it out, consider alternatives.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Lephturn]

Worr's tretise on wingman tactics is decent background reading:

http://www.propsim.com/wb-training/worr-wingman.html

Also, generally the rules preclude things like trying to run the other fellow out of gas.  Besides, that's no fun!  Get in there and mix it up.  Just film it, and then if you get beat, you can review the film and learn something.  Getting beat by guys like Lev and Nath will teach you more than a month of bouncing newbies in the MA.

[TracerX]

Thanks for the information Leviathn and Lephturn.  I think I now have a good idea of how long an engagement will last, and what strategies to employ.  I still have one question on the initial merge.  What rules are there on the merge?  For example, how much separation is allowed?  Can the merge take the form of a trailing formation, and if so, is the fight on when the lead merges or the trailing plane?  What about altitude differences, etc.?  I feel that EXCESSIVE separation either virtical or horizontal would put yourself at a severe disadvantage, but I would like to know what excessive is.  I would like to know so that if I encounter this strategy, when would I be able to start the fight and kill the unfortunate individuals?

[Dead Man Flying]

Originally posted by tracerx
What rules are there on the merge?  For example, how much separation is allowed?  Can the merge take the form of a trailing formation, and if so, is the fight on when the lead merges or the trailing plane?  What about altitude differences, etc.?

[/B]

The merge is pretty much wide open.  My feeling is that once the first two planes pass one another, the game is "on."  This is how all of my Loose Deuce matches were fought in any event.  You can use any sort of formation you'd like on the merge... you can trail, you can do a high/low combo (so long as the high guy stays within the alt cap on the merge)... do whatever you feel will work.  There's a lot of leeway here.

I feel that EXCESSIVE separation either virtical or horizontal would put yourself at a severe disadvantage, but I would like to know what excessive is.  I would like to know so that if I encounter this strategy, when would I be able to start the fight and kill the unfortunate individuals?

You're right, excessive separation means that your opponents could gang up on your wingman and kill him before you're able to help out.  I find that 2k separation is too much in most cases.  Strive for something closer together than that.

-- Todd/Leviathn

[Blue Mako]

I would recommend being no more than 1.0k apart at the merge and try to get a quick 2 v 1 kill so you can then go 2 v 1 on the remainging guy.  If you are not confident about your chances in a double 1 v 1 engagement then this is probably the best way to go.  Remember to use your voice comms is probably the best advice, letting your wingman know your intentions is critical.  Also, if you can, practice some wingman fighting tactics in the MA or TA before the duel, you will be surprised how quickly you can guess what your wingman will do in a given situation with practice, this again is critical in 2 v 2 combat.

[steely07]

Some good advice here,thanks all,and best of luck
 Gotta say that's a nasty pair to face first up,those AK's are known to be deadly fliers with a devil-may-care attitood
make sure you get film...

[TracerX]

Thank you very much for all the advice.  Leviathn, you are very kind to provide such careful insights and advice.  You told me just what I needed to know.  Same to you Lephturn.  I consider both of your advice very valuable coming from two of the top flyers in AH.  Also thanks to Blue Mako, divide and conquer by 2v1 odds will definitely be a priority for us.

As for our opponents, the draw was reshuffled after registration was finished and we are not facing the AKcruly and AKnimitz paring anymore, which is somewhat of a relief.  We do not want to take anyone lightly however since all participants are sure to be exceptional pilots.

I hope some of the information here has been beneficial to others, and in the interest of everyone, maybe we can move this discussion up a notch.  I am sure that there are some movie files out there from the first Loose Deuce competition that show some good encounters.  If anyone would like to share these I would be very interested in viewing a few.  Also, any further tips or insights into the world of wingman competition would still be welcome.

[Xjazz]

Some ACT info:

http://www.56thfightergroup.org/tac.html

http://home.austin.rr.com/sentai27/training/wingman_traps.htm

[TracerX]

Nice info Xjazz!  I like the tactics discussed in both of those links.  There is no excuse for a pair of fighters to get shot down by a single enemy, so long as they employ the tactics contained in those links.

I have had my first taste of the Loose Deuce Competition, and I must say that it is a very exciting event.  We were lucky enough to survive the first round and will be looking forward to our next match.  It moves very fast like Leviathn said, and I must agree that strong one on one dueling skills are very important, probably more so than team tactics like I would have expected.  I think that reacting to the situation and taking advantage of positions and opportunities is a very important part of being successful.  Also good gunnery skills will shorten the match considerably.  Downing an opponent in a single snapshot instantly doubles your odds of survival.  Lastly, knowing a few defensive moves can keep you alive long enough for your wingman to bail you out.  Getting fixed on your target is a very bad thing.  Staying alive is much more important than staying on an opponents six.  These are my initial observations.  Everyone, feel free to add any other observations learned through experience in this most exciting competition.

By the way, special to our opponents in the first round Kutt/BlkAdder.  They were great pilots, and the results could have just as easily turned out in their favor.  They deserve special commendation for making their schedules work with our schedules.  It is tough to arrange a match when you are on opposite sides of the country.