Textbook Tactics or Homemade Moves?

[Sundog]

Well, I guess you could say I started out with some 'home made' moves, then read Shaws book and learned they actually have names for them thar' aerial man-oo-vers.

I find I am much better at dis-similar aircraft combat than similar aircraft combat. I.E.- my flight envelope vs your flight envelope. In similar aircraft fights, I tend to bleed a little too much E trying to get the quick kill at times (It would actually work if I could lead the target better and if I could just plain aim!...Still studying that excellent gunnery article from SimHQ).

Also, I prefer team (section) tactics to 1 vs 1 dogfighting. Mostly, though, the tactics I use are just based on the relative flight envelopes, i.e.,

1) ID Bogey type(Which is obviously a bandit because it's a red dot on DAR    )
2) Try to discern the energy state of the Bandit.
3) Based on my experience flying both aircraft and my first guess as to relative energy states (his to mine), determine if I will use energy or angles tactics.
4) Then just do whatever it is we do, hope I get a shot and don't miss.
5) Go back and watch the film (Probably one of the best learning tools) and try to determine at what point I lost the fight (I.E.- Should have extended there, should have 'broke' earlier into that turn here, etc.)
6) Go back and try again.



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Sundog
VMF-111 Devildogs
'Criticism is always easier then craftmanship.'

[Creamo]

I take all the technical information supplied with the quarterly Aces High Newsletter like corner speeds for each aircraft and varient, and then practice with purpose of testing that critical data. (the .33cent mailing fee, and .50cent publishing costs are covered in your $30/month subrcription. Several members publish it for a 1 month free account)

Oh wait...

Nope, just fly around and stuff. Sometimes pulling the control stick friutlessly with out even watching the instruments, clueless as to the operating data on whatever Im flying..

[wolf37]

I learned how to fly the easy way, I threw a brick off the roof and watched as it flew (kinda) and now I know how to fly.




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wolf37
C.O.
THUNDER BIRDS

[BUG_EAF322]

i learned the basics on the sublogic Flightsim on my Amiga  
I never read a book about how to fight a other plane, it's all trial and error.

[LaVa]

if i jump my out of my apartment in the fog and float for more time than it takes my instructor to call his mommy can I log it as actual.

[funked]

Most of the real stuff that really works can found in books.

All the rest of the stuff is just gaming - stuff that only works because of netlag or other deficiencies in the simulation.

[Mk10 225th]

A combination of some incredible folks who were able to help me online to become competitive, reading Stephen Hawking's er...Robert Shaw's book (the parts that were actually written in English), studying basic ACM as taught in flight sim manuals, and the school of hard knocks, aka stick-time.

Mk

[Hangtime]

"THE YO-YO IS VERY DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN. IT WAS FIRST PERFECTED BY THE WELL KNOWN CHINESE FIGHTER PILOT YO-YO NORITAKE. HE ALSO FOUND IT QUITE DIFFICULT TO EXPLAIN, BEING QUITE DEVOID OF ENGLISH."

--- Squadron Leader K.G. Holland, Fighter Pilot

It's amazing the brits ever learned how to fly.  

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Hang
1st/AG "Bishlanders"  << Recruiting!!
"Turn to kill, not to engage."
Commander 'Willie' Driscoll, USNR

[Andy Bush]

It seems to me that success in this game boils down to four skills:

First...and most important...the ability to keep the bandit in sight using the view system. This may be helped by using a HOTAS stick/throttle combination along with some well thought-out modification of the standard views to increase lookout area. The single most significant factor in view management is the ability to keep the bandit in sight once it is no longer in your plane of symmetry (lift vector).

Second...proficiency in energy management. This may be improved thru careful stick programming of dead zones, sensitivity settings, etc. Aces High has a good 'black-out' feature that kicks in around 5-6 Gs. I see the real problem in the 3-5 G area. Flying in this area bleeds energy. The problem is that there are few cues to tell the pilot that he is pulling too hard on the stick. Most of us know the numbers...but in a fight, the Gs are easy to lay on without being aware of it. Because of the lack of other cues, it takes a determined effort to watch the G meter and airspeed indicator to avoid this energy drain.

Third...an understanding of how the unique technical effects of on-line flying affect your perception of closure and available turning room. BFM is all about closure and turning room. The best 'move' in the world may well be for nothing if attempted too soon or late or too slow or fast. My impression from flying AH is that the perceived closure and separation is either 'too little' or 'too close'. I typically underestimate closure and available turning room. As a result, it seems that maneuvers need to be initiated at ranges greater than what the picture on the screen would otherwise suggest. To this end, proficiency in flying 'to the elbow' or 'to the high six' will pay off in kills...or successful separations.

Lastly...BFM itself. Nothing new in BFM has come down the pike in many years (with the exception of the Rooskie 'Cobra' maneuver...and many of us have our doubts about that). The correct maneuver flown at the right time wins...anything else is rubbish, as someone once said! Choose the wrong maneuver or begin it at the wrong time, and your results may be disappointing.

Are there such things as 'home-made moves' and do they work? Perhaps. Some have alleged that the on-line environment has resulted in odd variances that some have taken advantage of. Otherwise, I doubt that there is a 'move' that is unique...someone probably thought of it long ago.

My thought is that such moves in AH probably work better when on the defensive. Some quick and unexpected maneuver that takes the defender out of the plane of symmetry of the attacker and that results in significant flight path separation may cause the attacker to lose sight. This will because the attacker is slow to respond with the correct view choice, or worse, chooses the wrong one.

So...once the pilot has figured out the idiosyncrasies of the AH viewing system, his particular aircraft's strengths and weaknesses, and the unique aspects of on-line flying, he is only left with Shaw. It's all there...100% complete. If it's not in that book, then it's most likely bar talk and BS.

Andy

[Fariz]

I will happily join you all in posting something stupid here, but, sorry, what the hell is FM? Fly, kill, call the names, rape sheeps, that is what the real man shall do!  

[gatt]

Mostly homemade, after 1.03. Take a look at what Zekes, Spitfires V, Nikis and F4Us can do, just to name a few. More textbook maneuvers before 1.03, IMHO.

 

[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 02-08-2001).]

[hblair]

As always, I didn't explain myself well (Hey, I'm from Alabama!  )

What I meant by "homemade moves" was not necassarily something brand-new made up by myself, but tactics learned by myself while flying online, on a trial and error basis, over a period of time. Meaning some of my bag-of-tricks might well be some things that, say, Andy has studied and/or used over his career as a real world combat pilot.

I just haven't read too many books on ACM/BFM myself, and don't know what the heck ya call half the stuff I do, therefore, my ACM/BFM was created by myself, for myself in the Aces High environment.

Did all that make sense?

BTW, nice cars in that other thread Andy. Dad used to have a '69 Red Corvette convertible with a 454. A true babe magnet.  

[fats]

--- And Bush: ---
First...and most important...the ability to keep the bandit in sight using the view system. This may be helped by using a HOTAS stick/throttle combination along with some well thought-out modification of the standard views to increase lookout area. The single most significant factor in view management is the ability to keep the bandit in sight once it is no longer in your plane of symmetry (lift vector).
--- end ---

I have ( forward, ) forward/up, up, up/rear, rear, left and right views mapped. The corner views like forward/right or right/up are useless. If you fly in vertical then those are all the views you need to keep the bogey in sight/in your lift vector. They are enough for cutting someones turn by rolling as well, when the enemy goes out of lift vector momentarily.


// fats

[Andy Bush]

hblair

I understood you just fine!! It's a great question and begs for a lengthy discussion.

Yep...old Vettes are tough to beat. My favorite is still the 427 '67 Coupe.

Andy

[Swoop]

Ok, so who is Robert Shaw and where can I get/download/see a copy of this book then?

Swoop