The F4U1-C

[R4M]

 

Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:

Believe me, F4U-1Cs are by far not your worst nightmare... you remove it and I'll come visit you sometime while you're in a straight jacket yapping about SpitIXs, N1K2s and La7s RAM.
-SW

I'm not a future teller   . I cant tell how the future will go, but I really doubt that any plane will get the massive use the Chog gets right now.

you seem to be one, tho, because you seem the future quite clearly.   Lucky you  


[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-23-2001).]

[AKSeaWulfe]

 

Originally posted by R4M:
I'm not a future teller   . I cant tell how the future go, but I really doubt any plane will get the massive use the Chog gets.

you seem to be one, tho, because you seem the future quite clearly.   Lucky you  

In order to tell the future, look back in the past. It'll tell you a few things.

I've been playing these online games since '93. Not as long as many, but long enough to tell you with 100% certainty that you can remove the top dog, but the next strongest one becomes the next top dog and WILL see the same popularity.

You don't seem to remember 1.03 and the 190A5.
If 8 years of playing these things has taught me one thing, it's that there will always be THE MOST popular plane that will see the SAME AMOUNT of usage by the last popular plane.

You are a smart bellybutton RAM, unfortunately you don't seem to be paying attention.
-SW

[R4M]

 

Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:


You don't seem to remember 1.03 and the 190A5.

I dont see your argument here. In 1.03 tours (5 to 7 IIRC) the Fw190A5 was LESS used than the Chog,except on Tour 6, when the A5 got some 50 kills more IIRC.

We will take the Tour 6 as an example, then.

 The number of kills of the Fw190A5 was 8383 and the Chog's 8320 or so.

 Just FYI, during 1.03, the P47D-30 got some 7300kills. The N1K2 5653, and the P51D 5259. The P38L got some 4070.

Oh, almost forgot. The Spitfire IX was teh most used plane that TOD. 9763 kills  

This is an overall view of TOD 6, the only TOD that the Fw190A5 had more kills than the Chog had in AH's history. And, excuse me , but this numbers show what it is, IMO, a fairly WELL balanced Main arena.

So, please SW, can you tell me...

What happened in 1.03 with the Fw190A5, again?  


 

If 8 years of playing these things has taught me one thing, it's that there will always be THE MOST popular plane that will see the SAME AMOUNT of usage by the last popular plane.

[/b]

I disagree. Some of the Chog crowd (the hardcore Hog fans) will remain with the Dhog, some will move to the NiKi, and the less will fly the tiffie or the Spit. NONE of those planes is likely to get the far outweighting number of kills the Chog gets. At least IMO.

 

You are a smart bellybutton RAM, unfortunately you don't seem to be paying attention.
-SW

See? we disagree again  


[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-23-2001).]

[AKSeaWulfe]

You're going by number of kills again RAM, boy that's the biggest mistake.
But even then you still can't add or subtract or maybe you just have a hormonal imbalance (which would lead to your excessive squeakyness)... so here I'll show you with your own words:

The number of kills of the Fw190A5 was 8383 and the Chog's 8320 or so.

Hmmm looks to me like the A5 was more popular than the F4U-1C to me... musta been that whole thing where the A5 was the best zoomer or something....

Just FYI, during 1.03, the P47D-30 got some 7300kills. The N1K2 5653, and the P51D 5259. The P38L got some 4070.

Useless trivial information....


Oh, almost forgot. The Spitfire IX was teh most used plane that TOD. 9763 kills

OH GEEZ!!! We've hit the jackpot with this one.. or the crack pot.. guess it depends who you're talking to. Now lets see... the F4U-1C wasn't as popular as the SpitIX that tour. The F4U-1C wasn't killed as much as the SpitIX or the 190A5 that tour either. So by simple mathematics we can see that during that tour the most popular plane was the SpitIX, followed by the 190A5, and lastly by the F4U-1C. Hmmm amazing, this was back when energy burnt away real quick.

So, please SW, can you tell me...

What happened in 1.03 with the Fw190A5, again?

Why do I feel like I'm teaching a blind man how to juggle?

The 190A5 was by far more popular in 1.03 than it is now.
Tour 15:
The fw190A-5 has 1748 kills and has been killed 1206 times.

Lets take a look at the SpitIX stats:
Tour15:
The Spitfire Mk IX has 8779 kills and has been killed 9363 times.

More people flying it and dying in it.
Lets see the other top dogs of the arena:
Tour 15:
The N1K2 has 9525 kills and has been killed 9445 times.
The F4U-1C has 20898 kills and has been killed 14795 times.


The 1.04 FM allowed for less energy burn, and thus a rise in popularity of the planes that can turn n burn.

You're right about one thing, everyone that flies the F4U-1C probably won't all go to the same plane...

Instead it's going to be a number of planes we already see plenty of. N1K2 and SpitIX.
Personally I'd rather see a sky full of F4U-1Cs than N1K2s and SpitIXs.

I guess you'd rather squeak and complain about those planes too RAM... oh wait you already do!

Hmmm I guess you're just looking for a reason to squeak louder, longer, and more obnoxiously about them then?
-SW

[R4M]

 

Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:
You're going by number of kills again RAM, boy that's the biggest mistake.
But even then you still can't add or subtract or maybe you just have a hormonal imbalance (which would lead to your excessive squeakyness)... so here I'll show you with your own words:

See, another difference between you and I, apart of the future teller thing is that I dont resort to personal insults each time someone tries to argue with me. You do  

 

Hmmm looks to me like the A5 was more popular than the F4U-1C to me... musta been that whole thing where the A5 was the best zoomer or something....

LOL! ok, if you say that a 0.7% difference in usage makes one plane "more popular" than other..ok, then. It was more popular.  

BTW and Just FYI, Tour 5 and Tour 7 (both 1.03) saw a Chog with 1000 more kills each than the Fw190A5. I thought you would like to know it <G>

 

Useless trivial information....

No, sir, that information says that the gap between most used planes and their immediate followers was ranging on some 1000-3000 kills or so.

This tour the Chog has got 11000 kills more than the N1K2, its most immediate follower.

Trivial information? I dont think so  


 

OH GEEZ!!! We've hit the jackpot with this one.. or the crack pot.. guess it depends who you're talking to. Now lets see... the F4U-1C wasn't as popular as the SpitIX that tour. The F4U-1C wasn't killed as much as the SpitIX or the 190A5 that tour either. So by simple mathematics we can see that during that tour the most popular plane was the SpitIX, followed by the 190A5, and lastly by the F4U-1C. Hmmm amazing, this was back when energy burnt away real quick.

First, I did that assesment to make you notice that your so-much-vaunted 1.03's Fw190A5 was NEVER the most used plane in the Main Arena...but maybe you missed my point <G>

Second, and Again, in Tours 5 and 7 the Fw190A5 got more than 1000 kills less than the Chog...to paraphrase you...Hmmm amazing, this was back when energy burnt away real quick <ironic grin>


 

Why do I feel like I'm teaching a blind man how to juggle?

The 190A5 was by far more popular in 1.03 than it is now.
Tour 15:
The fw190A-5 has 1748 kills and has been killed 1206 times.

Lets take a look at the SpitIX stats:
Tour15:
The Spitfire Mk IX has 8779 kills and has been killed 9363 times.

More people flying it and dying in it.
Lets see the other top dogs of the arena:
Tour 15:
The N1K2 has 9525 kills and has been killed 9445 times.
The F4U-1C has 20898 kills and has been killed 14795 times.


The 1.04 FM allowed for less energy burn, and thus a rise in popularity of the planes that can turn n burn.

You're right about one thing, everyone that flies the F4U-1C probably won't all go to the same plane...

Instead it's going to be a number of planes we already see plenty of. N1K2 and SpitIX.
Personally I'd rather see a sky full of F4U-1Cs than N1K2s and SpitIXs.

from all that personal insults, and words I extract the conclussion that you say that the Chog is more used now because it can turn better, and that is the reason why the Fw190A5 is not so used now. I dont understand WTF has to do this with the fact that the Chog has got 21000kills in this same moments...but I will quote you in a previous post in this same thread:

 

Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:
it's definitely not the best turner(at a stall speeds I can hold a 190A5 on a F4U-1C's tail even with his flaps down), and it definitely doesn't zoom very well either.

Following this (Brilliant) line of argument, the Fw190A5 should be way more used than the Chog on the MA...or not?...<G,D,R>


 

I guess you'd rather squeak and complain about those planes too RAM... oh wait you already do!

Hmmm I guess you're just looking for a reason to squeak louder, longer, and more obnoxiously about them then?
-SW

The fun thing is that the only one squeaking in this thread is you ,Seawulfe. Worse, you squeak at other's cost resorting to personal attacks each two posts.

I thought way better of you,dude. But maybe is because I am as idiot as you claim I am  

[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-23-2001).]

[blutic]

5 post and i'm a squeaker?
Ya'll better watch, 'cause chog will rule forever  

blutic

[VFJACKAL]

LOLOL at all this. Man this sim has ALOT of aces in it. those new guys who aren't as good must learn to fight like we're told to. Damn I missed that in the sign up. NO TURN FIGHTING ALLOWED! Therefore no N1k's or Spits. NO HO'ing allowed and being a crappy pilot that needs to rely on a plane to do the work. If you cant E Fight or are not an ACE stay out of our sim. You must NO ALL and be able to DO ALL from day 1.

  Guess I may has well stay in a goon..Cant turn..Has no guns..and is famous for finding a fight with a 109 or 190 or 51 or F4UD/D or whatever. But , If for some reason that pilot may crash trying to kill me whil I be 50ft off the deck...we'll get a "BAN THE LOW FLYING GOON" ROFLMAO....

  Pilot error doesnt exist...only lucky shots.

------------------
The Sneak hence "Jackal"

[AKSeaWulfe]

Whatever RAM, you keep trying to turn my words to better help your argument.

The F4U-1C is popular right now because it has 4 cannons and can fly off both CV and airfields.

If the N1K2 or SpitIX could do the same thing, THEY would see the most usage.

But removing it or perking it doesn't fix the issue, as I've said all along. The people flying the F4U-1C and using it to a great extent will just move over to the next plane they view as a competent fighter and something they can fly well. SpitIX, N1K2, hell, maybe even the Typhoon.

Either way you slice through this roadkill, you'll arrive at the same conclusion: People don't like the plane because it kills them too much.

Atleast if you are going to squeak about something and try to act as if you only have one concern, maybe you could actually post this "one concern" instead of 4 or 5 different ones.

You remember those "uber-lazer gun chogs" complaints RAM? Now was that pertaining to the NUMBER of uber lazer gun chogs in the air? Or the NUMBER of uber lazer guns? Or is it just the quad Hispanos?

It DEFINITELY can NOT be the NUMBER of "chogs" in the air this tour RAM... hell man lets just look and see how good ol' Asts is doing:
Tour 15:
Asts has 6 kills and has been killed 7 times against the F4U-1C.
Asts has 5 kills and has been killed 0 times against the Spitfire Mk IX.
Asts has 10 kills and has been killed 2 times against the A6M5b.

Is it the fact that the F4U-1C killed you 7 times that you feel there are too many? Cuz I see you got 10 kills while only killed twice against the Zero. PERK THE ZERO!!!!!!

It isn't because the F4U-1C has a lot of kills that has you upset RAM, it's the fact that so many people fly it. You want them to fly your way, you want them diversified across the planeset. But then when that next plane comes along that tears you a new one... the BBS will be filled with your tears. Then all I gotta do is dig up this thread!

Fine, go ahead... perk the F4U-1C. You are ignorant to the issue now, your eyes will be wide open when you've got an arena full of Seafires or SpitIXs or N1K2s to contend with.
-SW

[R4M]

First of all, congratulations. you are not only a great future teller, you are also a magnificent mind-reader. Wow, you know my motivations better than me  

 

Originally posted by AKSeaWulfe:
Asts has 6 kills and has been killed 7 times against the F4U-1C.
Asts has 5 kills and has been killed 0 times against the Spitfire Mk IX.
Asts has 10 kills and has been killed 2 times against the A6M5b.

Yup. I will give you some more data.

I've been killed two times in A6M5 by a CHog. I've been killed one time in a 109F4, one in a Fw190A5 and three in the Fw190D9.

The ones in the D9 and A5 cant tell ya,because I dont recall them. The ones in the Zero and 109F4 were because I wanted to do some weird fast fighting over a capped base..with the evident results (ask Stsanta and Kirin, they were on RW while I was being vulched  ). So, as you see, 3 of those kills were vulches...so,now, 6-4 doesnt seem as bad as 6-7, right?  

But frankly, and I'm sincere, I can't recall the last time a Chog killed me in pure A2A combat. I do recall when one killed my F8's engine wiht a single ping in a frontal pass, but I ditched that one.

Think whatever you want, SW. I'm not here to argue with you, nor with anyone else. I started this thread with a simple idea: for the time this TOD ends the Chog will have 26000-27000 kills, and that is IMO too much.

You, and others, keep insisting that it is not that great, it is not that bad, it is better for this, it is worse for that. Fine.

I came here with numbers wich show that the second of the list has got 45% of the kills than the first on the list. 21000 kills is the number of kills the Chog has got by today. And again,IMHO, that is too much.

On the other hand, I didnt start this thread to argue with anyone. My fault I've left myself be caught in this little debate we've had   .

[This message has been edited by R4M (edited 04-23-2001).]

[AKSeaWulfe]

Yes RAM, I don't think anyone will disagree with you that the F4U-1C is by far the most used.

So why did you start this thread? To get it perked? I'm not sure what the whole point of this thread IS in the first place, but it was turned into the usual "perk something... we need a point to this thread!"

Oh but HERE we see the point of the thread:
With all due sincerity,and IMHO, I simply dont understand what is HTC waiting for to perk it.

You may not want to argue with someone, but you sure started it.

RAM, which point of "The masses will go to the next available killing machine" can't you understand? You actually think because the F4U-1C is gone that people will say "Hmmm what should I fly now? HEY! There's a Macchi C.202 in this game!"???

What do you really want RAM? You want the F4U-1C perked. So lets say for Tour 16 that thing is perked. Towards the end of Tour 16 you might as well start copying the threads you've already written complaining about the F4U-1C, repost them replacing the F4U-1C (or Chog as you call it) with N1K2 or SpitIX.

You think you are right RAM, otherwise you wouldn't constantly remark that I "can see the future."

Funny thing: Hitler could of invaded Russia if he'd studied history. (hint: Napolean)
-SW

[Tac]

"It's not invincible, it's not the easiest to fly, if you are competent- it's an easy kill, it doesn't snap roll like a 190(can we say scissors???), it's definitely not the best turner(at a stall speeds I can hold a 190A5 on a F4U-1C's tail even with his flaps down), and it definitely doesn't zoom very well either."

So, by this same logic, we should all be asking for the dhog to be perked along with the c-hog?

Gee, I mean, how could it POSSIBLY be that 2 almost equal AC be so, so ,so different? Must be the paintjob..yes that must be it, the c-hog's paint is what makes the difference!  

"But removing it or perking it doesn't fix the issue, as I've said all along. The people flying the F4U-1C and using it to a great extent will just move over to the next plane they view as a competent fighter and something they can fly well. SpitIX, N1K2, hell, maybe even the Typhoon. "

N1k is part of this discussion, so we can skip it. SpitIX has its limitations (speed, ammo load) Typhoon has low ammo and cannot spray, it is also too fast for those who are not familiar with it.

"Either way you slice through this roadkill, you'll arrive at the same conclusion: People don't like the plane because it kills them too much."

Which is caused by what pray tell? Too many of them around? Maybe 1 ping kill capability? Or could it be by an FM that rivals an f16?

Oh yah, hate it when they kill me without even applying the most basic acm into their kills or stall and spray, a classic death flower manouver.

"You remember those "uber-lazer gun chogs" complaints RAM? Now was that pertaining to the NUMBER of uber lazer gun chogs in the air? Or the NUMBER of uber lazer guns? Or is it just the quad Hispanos"

All the above.

Go in the MA and count how many chogs you see in 10 sorties. Then count how many 109's. How many 205's. How many P-38's?

Chog:else ratio is quite high. N1k:else ratio is second to it. But then again, according to you its all just a whine *shrug*

By sheer # of kills the chog should be at least a cheap perk. By the sheer firepower (which I have an incredibly hard time believing its damage potential) it should be perked.

Its all in the guns. Trust the hispano luke...

[rosco-]

 Hog points thats the ticket! You kill a chog you get points towards the purchase of your very own chog. You loose it you loose the points. A screen shot of the text buffer with someone you just killed using HO or cannon dweeb gets you bonus hog points. That would cut down on the whineing.

BTW black sheep sqadron is on the history chnl now  

[AKSeaWulfe]

Tac, I would get into it with you too... but I have a hard enough time repeating myself to RAM.

I have yet to be shot down by a F4U-1C when I'm doing evasives or consciously evading one.

Tac, F16 flight model? I suggest you fly one just for a flight offline so you can actually figure out that it's the same as the F4U-1D.

Of course you don't have to take it from me.

You know, it's always the same old scratched CD playing by the same old band and it's getting really repetitive!

I mine as well give up... you guys have been whining since before the F4U-1C was extremely popular and it still hasn't been removed or perked.
You really don't take a hint too well, huh?
-SW

[Karnak]

AKSeaWulfe,

I'll leave you with this from Tour 14:

Karnak has 11 kills and has been killed 5 times against the F4U-1C.

Sometimes I do better and sometimes I do worse.

I'm done with F4U-1C discussions.  HTC will do what they will do.

<S> All.


------------------
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother

Bring the Spitfire F.MkXIVc to Aces High!!!

Sisu
-Karnak

[R4M]

Aahhhhhhh SW dont make it difficult to me...

I will asnwer you to one, just one thing, and then leave it for hopeless  .

 

RAM, which point of "The masses will go to the next available killing machine" can't you understand? You actually think because the F4U-1C is gone that people will say "Hmmm what should I fly now? HEY! There's a Macchi C.202 in this game!"???

SW; so now the reason not to stop the massive usage of a single plane by perking it is because the crowd...will move to another? lol  

BTW If you took the time to actually read my posts you would find that I've already asnwered to that. Some of the guys will change to the Dhog. Some of the guys will go to the N1K2 or the Spit.  Some of the guys will move to the Typhoon. ANd some of them will even fly the P47 or the Fw190A8.

One thing is a plane wich is very used. Other is a plane wich ammounts for such a monstrosuous percentage of the total arena kills, and wich has almost 11000 kills more than the second in the run.

In short, I will answer your question with another:


SW, which point of "the perk system is a way to prevent determinate planes to dominate the arena" dont you understand?